[Discussion] Funds for the Loan Program of Somerset County

We have to vote for this issue, but we have first to agree for the exact fund of this office.
I propose 20.000 pounds for this purpose,
if someone thinks it is low, remember that we will have repayments as weekly payments,or in case of Level 3 most of the cases just 1-2 days, because they need them only to fulfill the demands of the First secretary.

I will appeal to all councillors to add their comments fast, so after that we can proceed to the voting of the Loan program the next 2 days.

Thank you all in advance.

It seems reasonable to me. It is just over 10% of our treasury amount.

I agree with the suggested amount, we will adjust the aim in case we need it..

What was the amount allocated in the past? How much money was actually loaned out? What is the current debt owed to us?

These questions will help fuel a better informed discussion I think.

Also, it looks like there is growing concern that we are not discussing things in the public council room.

It was confusing to me last term what was supposed to be discussed in the public forum and what in the private forum. Here is the quote from the Legal Corpus:

Quote :

Art. 3.4.2. : All information given in the private council room forum is private. The only persons that can get information out is the Spokesperson, or any other council member that receives authorization to do so by the Duke. Any councilor that violates this article will be charged with high treason against Somerset duchy and can be sentenced to death or exile.

Discussion and voting related to the following subjects can only be held in the private council room :
i. All types of treaties
ii. Army, constabulary force, security proposals
iii. Trade
iv. Any proposal that the councilor who proposes it requests to be discussed and voted on in the private council room

There are two important parts of this law. First, all discussions that take place in the private forum are considered confidential, and information on any of them should not be passed to the public. Second, treaties, security issues and trades are to always remain in the private forum, as well as anything that the proposer wants to remain in the private can remain in private. Since a few of these discussions that we are currently having do not fall under the guidelines of issues that must remain private, we should assume that the original proposer wants them to remain private.

Two examples of things that do not fall directly under the the guidelines of necessary private discussion are this loan discussion and the ice breaker, therefor we should assume that Justinan wanted this to remain private and I wanted the ice breaker to remain private.

I hope this helps to clarify a confusing law (at least I found it confusing, but maybe I am the only one )


For Somerset!
Rebo

We had the situation with Lord Ra,
and we are minus 500, because the citizen left for Scotland !!

That's why i don't want to go in public with this issues, as you can imagine a program like this can easily been abused if they see how easy is to take money and.....simply leave.

It is your right to keep this in the private forum, Duke Justinan. It isn't necessary to justify your reasons, but thanks for the clarification.


-Rebo

Here is all what we got from this case in the archive:

https://somerset.rpg-board.net/Duchy-council-archive-f37/Requests-for-Grant-Loans-t902.htm

As you can imagine ,it doesnt help at all if we go public on this ,and it will harm the Loan program and its status.
I am also for to continue the Loan program and not see it through this individual case.
Of course if some of you think that it doesnt help at all and that we have to stop further discusiions of Loans to Somerset Citizens, i will fully understand you.

Sorry that i didnt post earlier the link for a complete picture, net problems.

I think the loan program is a great idea, but we certainly need to have things in place in case someone defaults on a loan. Especially on one as big as Lord_Ra's. Have we tried to contact him? He was an upstanding citizen, and even councilor, for a long time in Somerset. I would hope that he would repay us, even if he is a Scot now. Have we tried?

Also, I realize it might be info that I should know, but Justinan, do you know the answers to my questions above (two of my posts above I think).

For Somerset!

I think also it is a great idea and we have to give it a chance.
About Ra, well i found out when i took my responsibilities.Never heard of this before, chardy inform me of the case.

We don't have judicial treaty with Scotland, it is in my intentions too, and as you might know, their is no way to send us from there the money, he cannot cancel a loan from another Country and LongJohn doesn't accept trade any more outside England.

These are the facts.

No, we didnt had any more requests, as far as i know at least, because the Private Council was closed for me the previous term.

As I can see from the grant status, the 500 pounds is inside the grant, just waiting to be cancelled and thus returned to us. I believe we will simply have to wait for roads between us for him to travel here and cancel the loan in person.

Yes of course, he needsto be in Somerset soil to do it.
Also we dont have to take messures of justice, then we put and our agents in problems...

So, lets focused now on the ammount, any more opinions about this ?

Rebo wrote:

What was the amount allocated in the past? How much money was actually loaned out? What is the current debt owed to us?

These questions will help fuel a better informed discussion I think.

Is Lord Ra the only one to receive a grant from us? If not, is his the only one which is still owed to us?

I believe the best in people and am willing to wager county money on it .

I vote for the proposal.

as far as the SAS grants I must point out that people sometimes buy the meat and forget to cancel the grant with the money sitting on it...
I will start mailing people to cancel the grant so to send the money back asap when I see they got their meat.....I don't want to be pushy, but it is very simple to click on cancel the grant so they may as well take a few seconds to do it....

Rebo wrote:

I think the loan program is a great idea, but we certainly need to have things in place in case someone defaults on a loan. Especially on one as big as Lord_Ra's. Have we tried to contact him? He was an upstanding citizen, and even councilor, for a long time in Somerset. I would hope that he would repay us, even if he is a Scot now. Have we tried?

Also, I realize it might be info that I should know, but Justinan, do you know the answers to my questions above (two of my posts above I think).

For Somerset!

This is one reason we need to vote the loan program out of the legal corpus. As it stands now it is a law and the county is compelled to oblige all requests.
If it were voted out of the legal corpus and instead was deemed a 'privledge' offered by Somerset county to it's citizens we would have more descretion to control such as LJS decree that former criminal records can not be held against citizens for future endeavors. As a "priveledge" criminal records could be considered in granting loans as reliability in repaying the loan.

While it would certainly be the right of every citizen to apply to the loan program there should not be a legal loophole that handcuffs the county in handling the program.

i agree that we shouldn't have to give a loan to everyone that asks, it could get us in big trouble

Well if I may, who voted this program in a law in the first place then?

Thorpe

Thorpe wrote:

Well if I may, who voted this program in a law in the first place then?

Thorpe

Previous Council, but then ,King change the options for jail, for a better gameplay- like..

Exactly, he said you could not make laws to ban them from positions or running for office. He said that it was up to the people to decide if they wanted them to be in office and that laws could not carry such stiff fines and jail time as to drive a person out of the game.

I still do not see his decree affecting the loans program. We as the peoples representatives still have the right, even as a law to protect the peoples money. Obviously we should be able to take a persons history into consideration when giving out the peoples money.

Now, having said that I am not sure that the loans program should have been on the law books in the first place. What was the rational for placing it in the legal corpus?

Gregarious wrote:

Exactly, he said you could not make laws to ban them from positions or running for office. He said that it was up to the people to decide if they wanted them to be in office and that laws could not carry such stiff fines and jail time as to drive a person out of the game.

I still do not see his decree affecting the loans program. We as the peoples representatives still have the right, even as a law to protect the peoples money. Obviously we should be able to take a persons history into consideration when giving out the peoples money.

Now, having said that I am not sure that the loans program should have been on the law books in the first place. What was the rational for placing it in the legal corpus?

You would have to ask Hypno that question.

I never thought it belonged in the legal corpus or the section on the police force either.