[a]Should the Green Bush Have Poker Tables?

Mario, the card selling Italian merchant, has come to Chard. Tavern owners can now "update" their tavern to allow people to play poker. The interface for the taverns looks much different when it is a "poker-tavern". The game is texas hold'em.

Should the Green Bush "update" to allow poker?

I vote Nay!

There are a few reasons why I think the Green Bush should NOT allow poker.

1) In Chard, we are lucky to have many taverns. I think that we should protect the interest of our private entrepreneurs by allowing them some uniqueness. By not allowing poker within the Green Bush, we will allow our other private tavern owners the opportunity for different business. We want to encourage our people to try new things like opening taverns, and if the Green Bush has a "monopoly" on business then we will not be encouraging them to stretch their boundaries.

2) Similarly, private tavern owners have to pay a tax to England for having a tavern. Town Hall does not. This is just another reason why we need to protect their interests and allow them to diversify their money-making abilities.

3) I do not think the town Hall should sanction person-to-person gambling. Gambling and drinking together cause people to do rash things. They are many vices in this world, and we should not encourage it (right, Father Crepitus?).

4) I forget! (ooc. the interface for the taverns with poker tables is much different than that which we are used to. It is not as condusive to just sitting around and chatting. We should make sure that there is still a place for people to sit around and talk without dealing with the poker interface).

I tend to agree with Rebo, mostly for his reason number 4.

Poker and conversation dont mix well. Serious players dont like a lot of distracting banter, and those who would prefer to chat aren't always paying attention to the game.

The other points are good ones too. But 4 is the kicker.

*shrugs*

Yes

Green bush should have poker, why not? I think there should be a couple taverns with a table as well, then theres lots of choices, choices are good. And although we have many taverns I think theres only a couple that keep fair prices and an active clientelle over the green bush. Why is it about the money? People just go to whichever tavern has people in it, if people are sitting in the green bush thats where they go, if they can also play some poker then that'll be a bonus.

Town hall sactioning gambling? I mean... its not like we have a miners... *lotto* or are working on a bread open *lotto*... hmmm

And as for your conversation thing, I think we will survive, if people need a place to chat without playing poker there'll always be another tavern out there, by that logic of needing a place with no poker you'd be saying the town hall would be stealing business from the other taverns, which is kinda contrary to your first point...

I just don't see why not basically, its part of the game mechanics, I don't know if theres any cost to town hall, and if town hall makes a couple pounds off of the game, then woo hoo, maybe our networth will stop going down for once.

MikeBlack wrote:

...l, and if town hall makes a couple pounds off of the game, then woo hoo, maybe our networth will stop going down for once.

OH no problem sir. Lord Bairon [Justinan's politcal "clone"] was kind enough to explain to me that keeping TH solvent is "simple", we just have no economic "plan" and need to "invest" in more goods. It really is quite easy, you see.

I am ever so grateful that he took the time to school this silly girl, who clearly just doesnt understand how simple it is to properly manage a town's economy.


Atri

I vote Yes. I agree with Mike.

OK, I've been playing poker in Lady M's new casino. Here are some observations:

1. General chit chat is practically non existant when playing. The game moves too rapidly to do both. You have only thirty seconds to consider a bet.

Also the arrangement of the window and components makes reading and following the text a bit more difficult/ less intuitive.

2. It is expensive for a tavern owner to operate. The 'house" cut from each pot is very small, and covering the extra 20 P tax each week [in addition to the normal tavern tax] will be tricky. If the TH offers poker, it will seriously impact tavern owners ability to cover their expenses.

3. Apparently each player can only play 20 hands of cards each week, unless they are an ingame lord [they can play 220 games] So there will be a limited number of player/hands/pots available each week. Again, TH will be vying for the same customers that the private casino owners are relying on to make a go of it.


Personally, I like the game [ due to beginners luck, i managed to double my money in 20 hands] but i truly think that the Mayor ought to really think this through before rushing into the poker business.

Atri
PS:
Another thing I wonder about this whole poker thing overall, doesn't the extra tax remove money from the economy and send it to the King? I worry about the long term effects of this. Or does the tax go to the county? either way, thats an extra 20 pounds per tavern per week disappearing from Chard's economy. And 10 more on top of that each week if you buy extra chairs.

(I still don't think that tax applies to the town hall tavern, something to check, but *shrugs*)

Whatever, as usual Atri and Rebo disagree with me, I think simply for the reason it *is* expensive for tavern owners the town hall aught to have a poker table. I've said before that making it difficult to chat is no issue, in fact since you want people to be in alternate taverns maybe having a poker table in the town hall will promote general eating/drinking/talking in other taverns if people are playing a game.

I agree, that bonus tax will likely suck out the tavern owners personal wealth even quicker then the old days, since it was hard enough to make enough from selling food to pay the old tax, and it is money gone from the town's economy.

Basically I still see no reason for the town hall not to have a poker table, the talking thing shouldn't make any difference, and the income for tavern owners... *shrugs* I don't follow that sort of capitalist system where just because someone owns a business they deserve to make money, taverns look just like any level 2 profession, over stocked, theres too many taverns for all our tavern owners to make a decent profit, weather theres poker or not...

Ah well, Mikey's gettin tired again

Ok, here are my thoughts on the matter. TH's initial function is to supply the necessities for a new town. Once it has grown to the size of Chard it is then to try & keep prices stable & import items during a shortage. Not necessarily to compete with the populace.

The TH Tavern is much the same. In a new town it is the only tavern for people to go for a meal or to find help learning the game. When others are opened it is still the most likely place for new borns to go for help. I don't feel that someone trying to find a place to learn the game needs to be confronted with something else to learn.

For those of you who are voting yes just to make sure that there is a tavern that will have gambling for you, I personally know that Brighda has bought cards & is waiting for the tables now.

Regarding making sure that there is a place for people to just be able to go & talk. We only have control over the TH tavern, it is the only one that we can ensure is just a place for people to go for a drink, a meal & just talk. (and for new players to ask for help)

All of this may be a mute point anyway as I am not given the option to put the cards in the tavern. Although it may be required to have the table 1st.

Aeryn, you managed to say what I was trying to get at, but much more succinctly than I did.

Mike, I don't always disagree with you. I just play the devil's advocate a lot. My concerns with poker in the TH tavern were essentially these:

1. it is virtually impossible to have normal conversation at the tables. Go play at Lady M's and you will see what I eman. And as Aeryn points out, we NEED a place where newbies can talk with more experienced palyers and where citizens, like grumpy butchers, can discuss issues and ideas. That won't happen at these poker tables.

2. BECAUSE the TH doesnt pay a tax, it is able to unfairly compete with private entrepreneurs. It may not be the governments duty to ensure a business owner makes money, but it also shouldnt take steps that prevent businesses from making a profit.

I agree we have more taverns than we need; but do we really want to be actively trying to drive them into bankruptcy?

In truth, it wont matter to me personally either way. I ain't got a dog in this fight. If there's no table, I am fine with that. If there is, I will play my 20 hands and skin some noob to the bone, chew his marrow and leave him weeping over an empty purse. I was the only daughter in a housefull of boys. Cards, I can do.

I shoot too, by the way, and well.

Mike, just because i dont always agree with you, doesnt mean I love you any less. You're like a big brother to me. But I dont always agree with my brother IRL either. I dont always agree with Rebo. Hell, I dont always agree with anyone.

And for the record, i am not saying we shouldnt have poker in the greenbush, I am only saying we ought not rush into it without seriously considering the ramifications.

Atri
If you want a "yes-man" you hired the wrong girl

Atri wrote:

In truth, it wont matter to me personally either way. I ain't got a dog in this fight. If there's no table, I am fine with that. If there is, I will play my 20 hands and skin some noob to the bone, chew his marrow and leave him weeping over an empty purse. I was the only daughter in a housefull of boys. Cards, I can do.

hahahahahaha! Brilliant!

Quote :

I shoot too, by the way, and well.

Rebo makes a note to never challenge Atri to a duel.


And Mikey, we do seem to disagree a lot. You have been my mayor for a long time, I am used to being your devil's advocate . Aeyrn, prepare yourself! But we agree on the most important thing: Chard is amazing and deserves to be better! If that were the only thing we agreed on, we would still be close allies.


For Chard!
Rebo

I voted no (just to be difficult .... )

1) Town needs a place where people can get good priced, consistent food, drink and chat. The new poker taverns don't work for some people, like Ero and Actaeon to name a few.

2) cards + table cost over 100 pounds, which is going to be taken out of Chards treasury, and the cut you get from the dealings probably isn't going to be enough to cover it for a long time

3) I'm sure I have some other good reasons

Interesting vote... 50-50... That helps a lot... Lol

Thorpe

UPDATE:

It would seem that the initial information I was given about number of hands permitted was in error. Apparently a non-lord player can play 20 hands per DAY [yay!] rather than a 20 per WEEK limit.

Due to the fact that the the gambling upgrade does not work for some because the text entry box is not visible to them, I have decided that we will not have gambling in the TH Tavern. The fact that some new people may not be able to ask for help there is totally unacceptable. This topic is now closed. Mike if you would lock it please.

Ah ha ha sure Aeryn, locked it is, and Marshy you're so silly, your second post is to protect your own casino