SPLIT from book II

Quote :

The meat program is normal duties, is vote by the majority of the council and include in the procedure. What is not normal is too use tool of a position to pass election adds that what this laws is about. Even if none do it in Somerset right now is not illegal for a mayor to sent a letter to is citizens to said vote for my party. And we know communication state point are paid from public funds so, it'S something not acceptable. Yes the laws need better wording and clear definition if someone can come up with. I will be happy to change it. But we need this laws in case.

All officials duties are normal functions and many governed by laws voted for. If cheap meat is given to the issuer's friends and accomplices in unneeded bulk to be resold at a profit that is abuse of power.

We already have a law of abuse that covers using the mayor's mass mailing system for political or personal gain.

I agree we need dumping laws and we have them. Requiring a traveler to ask the mayor's permission to sell a pair of shoes at fair price to fund their travels smacks of despotism.

Allikath wrote:

We already have a law of abuse that covers using the mayor's mass mailing system for political or personal gain.

No we don'T point me it out, because only for financial gain we have and none for the rest

This is what I was referring to. I believe this covers mass mailing and pretty much anything else.

004 Abuse of Power
Any official, appointed or elected, who shall

- abuse the powers of their office;
- grossly neglect their duties;
- act in a way disadvantageous of the people of Somerset or any town in Somerset;
- and/or commit any deed punishable under the Laws of Somerset,

shall be punishable with either:

- imprisonment of up to three days;
- or a fine equal to the worth of the damage done, increased with a percentage between 10 and 25.

In case of an official occupying a position on the Council of Somerset, the Judge may also recommend that the convict be dismissed from that position.

Allikath wrote:

Quote :

The meat program is normal duties, is vote by the majority of the council and include in the procedure. What is not normal is too use tool of a position to pass election adds that what this laws is about. Even if none do it in Somerset right now is not illegal for a mayor to sent a letter to is citizens to said vote for my party. And we know communication state point are paid from public funds so, it'S something not acceptable. Yes the laws need better wording and clear definition if someone can come up with. I will be happy to change it. But we need this laws in case.

All officials duties are normal functions and many governed by laws voted for. If cheap meat is given to the issuer's friends and accomplices in unneeded bulk to be resold at a profit that is abuse of power.

We already have a law of abuse that covers using the mayor's mass mailing system for political or personal gain.

I agree we need dumping laws and we have them. Requiring a traveler to ask the mayor's permission to sell a pair of shoes at fair price to fund their travels smacks of despotism.

I too share Councilor Allikath's concerns regarding the meat program and it's potential for abuse!

The grant wording specifies that the grant is given for the personal use of the recipient. All SAS members are granted. SAS membership is the ONLY criterion for receiving such a grant. If you catch someone selling or reselling the meat for profit, kindly post in the Public Prosecutor's thread, as that would be an abuse of the program, and actionable under the fraud laws.

Certainly the potential for abuse exists. This is true for any office at town or county level where one is empowered to make grants, and for any person who may become a grantee. It's one of the reasons that we have laws about abuse of power and financial matters, for it's certainly more serious than someone selling 20 fruits in Bridgewater.

Why is the meat program suddenly a big deal? Allikath and 7 others of last sessions Council voted for it, with none in opposition. So what's the agenda that brings it up as questionable now?

It was a good idea when Saj was in control of it.
It was presented to help SAS members with less money to gain strength.
Unfortunately now it is subject to abuse.
If someone can afford to buy 10 pieces of meat at a time they can afford to pay the regular market price and not take advantage of the program.

Frankly the only reason I see for getting 10 pieces of meat at one time when one a day can be eaten is for the possibility of profiteering.

:roll:The objection is not to who runs it but the excess being granted.

Did you even read the thread beyond the last two post?.

If you can't see the potential for abuse and profiteering perhaps you do not belong in a position of responsibility.

Well, let me look. Timari took a grant of 10, and has been using one a day. Mikeblack took a grant of 10 and purchased all of them at once. But he's been around a long time, probably close to level 3, and with plenty of cash, I suppose. Maybe you should point a finger there, Allikath. I grant the quantities requested, as Saj did, as has been done from the inception of the program. There is no language in the program permitting me to do otherwise. *I* would certainly hesitate to accuse Mikeblack of wrongdoing, but it appears that is your insinuation, Allikath.

Perhaps instead of sniping, you could do something constructive about your beliefs that everyone in the county save yourself is up to something that wouldn't stand scrutiny. You could, for example, propose a change to the SAS meat program, so that people could only request some number at any given time. There are undoubtably other constructive ways you could deal with your concerns. But you appear to prefer to make insinuations and cast insults at others.

I have made no insults, insinuations or accusations merely stated facts.

If certain people weren't petty and biased they might see that instead of falsely accusing me of something that isn't there.

Or is there a reason to be defensive about a mere opinion?

Allikath wrote:

Hypno wrote:

New article:

Quote :

Art. 2.4.6.: An act of abuse of power is defined as the use of public position beyond normal duties to gets political or personal gain for himself/herself or an accomplice. Good example of abuse of power is the use of Town hall message or mayor letters for political publicity.

Again I think this is too open to subjective interpretation and abuse. A normal act of office could easily advantage an elected official and an aquintance.
If this law were currently in effect it could easily be applied to the SAS meat program.

Allikath wrote:

It was a good idea when Saj was in control of it.
It was presented to help SAS members with less money to gain strength.
Unfortunately now it is subject to abuse.
If someone can afford to buy 10 pieces of meat at a time they can afford to pay the regular market price and not take advantage of the program.

Frankly the only reason I see for getting 10 pieces of meat at one time when one a day can be eaten is for the possibility of profiteering.

Allikath wrote:

:roll:The objection is not to who runs it but the excess being granted.

Did you even read the thread beyond the last two post?.

If you can't see the potential for abuse and profiteering perhaps you do not belong in a position of responsibility.

Allikath wrote:

I have made no insults, insinuations or accusations merely stated facts.

Sure looks to me as though you've made insinuations in this thread.

Allikath wrote:

Budicca and I were on councils before you were born and have been on council continueously since the first elected.

We have laid the ground work for most of what has been accomplished for the people of somerset.
We have worked for the benefit of the citizens for 8 councils and at the municipal level as well.

We do not need a power hungry noobie wanna-be lecturing us on the responsibilities of our office.

And looky here! an insult!

Frankly, i'm tired of your abuse, Allikath. I have done nothing hostile towards you, even gone out of my way to praise you for lack of partisanship when doing county business. Yet you call me power-hungry, insinuate that i or other Somerset citizens are profiteering from the SAS meat program, and through it all claim to be innocent.

I demand an apology to me, and to the unnamed persons whom you have accused of such profiteering.

If such apologies are not tendered within 24 hours of the timestamp on this post, I shall complain to the Public Prosecutor.

You are wrong and of course will not consider the possibiity.

I am not against the meat program. I voted for it.
I have merely pointed out the possibility of abuse if granted in bulk.

It is no surprise you have been out to get me through out this entire term.
As have others.

I abuse no one I speak my opinions and because I am disliked by you and others I am hounded and abused.

If you and others had not been out to get me the entire term things may have played out differently.

At any rate I apologize to anyone and everyone who has read a single word I posted in every thread in every section of this forum and to anyone who in the least way felt offended by anything I posted.

Allikath wrote:

You are wrong and of course will not consider the possibiity.

I am not against the meat program. I voted for it.
I have merely pointed out the possibility of abuse if granted in bulk.

It is no surprise you have been out to get me through out this entire term.
As have others.

I abuse no one I speak my opinions and because I am disliked by you and others I am hounded and abused.

If you and others had not been out to get me the entire term things may have played out differently.

At any rate I apologize to anyone and everyone who has read a single word I posted in every thread in every section of this forum and to anyone who in the least way felt offended by anything I posted.

I agree with Allikath. One member of LoF after another has been either forced to resign or threatened with lawsuits and for what, I believe is no fault of their own or what has been exxaggerated or taken out of context.

There is a difference between opinion and opinionated.

You are so opinionated you lack the ability to be objective.

You are probably right I come off that way to you because you have programmed yourself to see things that way.

You are wrong. So wrong.

I may come off as rude because or sarcastic because of the way I convey my words. I lack a certain eloquence that comes naturally to some people.

But I am no bully nor have I ever been if anything I am largely ignored so maybe I am more boisterous or pushy then neccessary.

I do not expect you to ever understand anything about me because it is not in you.

I suppose now I seem rude and sarcastic to you but I am just being sincere and trying to express myself succinctly.

I don't understand what vote you are talking about. No vote has anything to do with what is going on.

It is merely the same political game that has been played from the start of this term.

budicca wrote:

I agree with Allikath. One member of LoF after another has been either forced to resign or threatened with lawsuits and for what, I believe is no fault of their own or what has been exxaggerated or taken out of context.

One LoF member after another has made baseless accusations. If I did that, I'd get prosecuted too. I don't. Instead, I make nice conciliatory posts, and get called names. Then you get your feelings all hurt cuz I won't stand for being treated like that, and you cry because I stand up for myself. It's the same game that others have tried to play - you're trying to make me appear the bully when I respond to your defamations, or those of other members of LoF, in a lawful manner. Were the people calling me names Patrons, I would still prosecute.

allikath wrote:

At any rate I apologize to anyone and everyone who has read a single word I posted in every thread in every section of this forum and to anyone who in the least way felt offended by anything I posted.

I do not find this an acceptable apology.

how did we get form a discation that was about a law book to the meat program then to this.

Chardonnay wrote:

Were the people calling me names Patrons, I would still prosecute

I find the notion of prosecuting someone for name calling to be sad and ridiculous .

2. "Land of Freedom" (LoF) : 30.6%
3. "Patrons" (PATRONS) : 22.8%


THe Patrons lost the last election badly but yet they have been assigned the following council positions:

Bellos (Captain), Ellsbeth (Public Prosecutor), Lord_justinan (Constable)

while LoF who received almost 8% more of YOUT VOTE have been assigned Sherrif a very important position, second only to Count or Trade Minister and we were assigned Mines Superintendant, which is largely a figure head position with little to no authority. That is not an accurate reflection of the will of the people of Somerset. I believe the anit defamtion laws are also not something Somerset county will benifit from.

I make no accusations here. I am simply presenting facts for the VOTERS of Somerset County to see and evaluate for themselves. Thanks! Budicca, Mayor of Gloucester.

oops sorry I edited the post to reflect the correction you pointed out. It changes nothing Three postions to two and no real say at all. As for my position and yours, mine is a figure head position, I have no real responsibility as Mines Super. As for switching Position with you, that is a silly suggestion. I am not suited for the Constables position since I am not active in the military or any orther aspect of keeping the peace other then serving as Gloucester's Mayor. You are suited to the position. And yes I am tired irl and IG. This council has really done very little, we have been too distracted by these unfounded assualts upon the LoF canidates. One other thing I am sick of people saying I accuse the previous council of corruption. I served on the previous Council; I never accused it of corruption. I accused the CENSORS of corruption and I was banned by the CENSORS for my accusation. SO please stop this misstatement that I accused Council of corruption. THe Patrons tried to convince the voters of this during the election and what did it get the Patrons:

2. "Land of Freedom" (LoF) : 30.6%
3. "Patrons" (PATRONS) : 22.8%

Sorry for my error I sometimes have trouble distinguishing SNP from the Patrons; especially with Hypno, leader of SNP still on the Patrons membership list:

http://forum.renaissancekingdoms.com/groupcp.php?g=979&sid=a5af1ac76be3058b420be71139da7d61

Of course it is a silly sugestion, it is just a jesture to show you how this is equal and nothing changes really.
Ok, now we have Bellos , lets see arguments :

Bellos some time now, work on the Army ,train the soldiers, made some movements with the squads and have some results upon the SAS army and how this ingame works.

Now, next to him, which other person you thing is more suitable for this job ?

Do we have to look better who will fit in a position, than to look upon some percentages of voting, which i repeat again neither LOF or Patrons have to do with it ?

That what i am talking had implemented in the case of Alikath and Hypno didnt change her from this position, using the most experience Councillor for this.

Now, why are you talking about activity of this Council, did we end our term yet ? we discuss every single day something else, every one of us bring an issue to work on it.
These days Hypno took the books to rewrite them again.

The activity and the work that you seeking , was not implemented, i am sorry that i telling this, by LOF party.

Just Alikath was here for voting before you, Teagan and Poliphilus didnt propose nothing, vote in selected issues and the only thing that i saw them to be very very active was when a chair is empty to step on it and to propose a person to be changed and to take his place.

This is all the activity people vote Lof councilors for ?
this is all they can give here ?
Isnt this low and pitfull in the eyes of a normal person ?

I hope we will work from now on in peace and together untill the end.

When elections come you can provide your program and change everything you think that has to be changed.
Until then you can propose some issues, if they not pass ,maybe it is not oposition's fault.
I remind you here a proposal of mine that voted by LOF ( you wasnt here of course ),
so i will do the same if i see something to worthy about.


PS: Did i say somewhere that you as Budicca made acusations on Patrons ?
where i am saying this , Is my English so bad ?

I refuse to fight with you, Justinian. I respect you as a player and Councillor. You did, however; falsely say that I accused a council I sat on of corruption. The work on rewriting our laws is Count Hypno's intiative and largely his project, not something Council can take a lot of credit for. We have spent most of our time bickering or attempting to remove our fellow Councilors. We should all be ashamed of this and we should stop making hysterical cries for prosecuting our fellow councilors, except the apologies offered and move on to the important work we were elected to do! I direct this not to you Justinian but to us all. PS> Your English is fine, much better then my French

We are not fighting, we talking, you see internet some times can be cruel and look like this, but i have no intention of fighting with anybody.
Yes you are right, i was saying about your declaration ,but i mean LOFs Leaders words you didnt participate on this.
I am saying this to be clear, but i post in some lines under ,Poliphilus accusations and your opinion, so i think it was little obvious...never mind.

I am also for, from all of us to stop accusations among respectfull Councilors, we are not here to spend our time on this, you are right, i really hope we will work, with our diferences and our opinions to serve here, and to make Somerset a little better than it was before our term.

But i have to admitt that the last incident came from knowhere from Alikath's part and it wasn't right.
Cause i know this girl, Timari is a hard worker player, show big activity on SAS, participate in 2 revolts for the good of the County loosing wages from her personal work.

She plans to travel, so she needed these days to make up her strength before she leaves, it would be easy before we make a mayor conclusion just to ask why.

I personaly guaranty for the integrity of this Citizen which is always there to help and travel for Bridgewater even without wage as a Travel Merchant......

So, next time , we just have to ask why.....
Chardonnay from the other hand continues the succesfull work from Mayor to TM, the last thing is to hear from us call her names and accusations for participate in coruption in SAS meat programm.
She used to handle with grants and havy funds for town with success and trust, she doeasn't deserve to hear this.......

So,we have all to sit down and work, no more accusations, no more defamation, just everybody to do the job untill the end, nothing more , nothing less.