Suggestion to the council

We have the pressing issues of our Capital city's sustainment
we have 2 armies camped out in one of our towns
we have one counsellor who has still not show up at all for work in Bristol
we have yet to replace our Lord Protector
we have just as of this week achieved more than 50/60% attendance

and You are concerned with

Vàna Rúndóttir wrote:

In 8 days time we need to get a moderator for the next election and the debate should start 10 days after that according to law. .

?

We need to be concerned with the issues we were supposedly elected to deal with last time instead of worrying how we can get ourselves elected again it would seem.

Yes our laws dictate this action must be taken and we will need to deal with it but there are other pending issues that I am sure the people feel are of a much greater priority than the arrangement of the next Somerset Dog and Pony show we call election season.

Ellsbeth wrote:

and You are concerned with

Vàna Rúndóttir wrote:

In 8 days time we need to get a moderator for the next election and the debate should start 10 days after that according to law. .

?

We need to be concerned with the issues we were supposedly elected to deal with last time instead of worrying how we can get ourselves elected again it would seem.

Judge Ellsbeth,

I believe Sheriff Vana was referring to this post by a concerned citizen of Somerset. This one to be exact:

Catullus wrote:

why raise a contentious issue that will not become a concern until the election 6ish weeks from now. Put it on the back burner until there is enough time for it to proceed through the legislative channels and be dealt with just before the election.

Catullus stated that he does not think the discussion of the Repeal of Art 3.5.7. should have started because elections are still "6ish weeks away". This 6 weeks thing is partially true and partially not. The end of elections is in 38 days from now, but election season, which is what the law refers to, is much sooner. So to characterize her intentions as the deplorable "worrying how we can get ourselves elected again" is unnecessarily negative, I am under the belief that it was the honorable intention of clarification. When anyone has the opportunity to clarify a potential misunderstanding, I think it is wise and considerate to educate, instead of permitting anyone to carry on in a potential misunderstanding.

It is very possible that Catullus or anyone else in the County (myself included) was a bit confused as to when exactly this law takes effect.

Still optimistic,
Rebo

The Law takes effect the moment the Duchy castle allows the election lists to be filed which is 30 days prior.

and perhaps that was her intention in making the statement Counselor Rebo but she did not clarify it was a response to such and even given that it may likely be, I for one am still bothered that it is the upcoming elections that are at the forefront of the counselors mind and not the pending issues that affect the here and now of Somerset.

It would be wonderful if all this zeal and energy spent on worrying about how to change the laws that affect elections was put into How to build up and maintain our capital city who is a ghost town according to her mayor.

It would be grant if this massive effort to make sure that Outsiders rights were protected was put into protecting the rights of Somerset citizens, the people we are here to serve.


Negative? no. I call a spade a spade and I dont try to pretty things up and paint facades on the facts.

That repeal of that laws is just a political move, it wonly serve LOF. And the repeal will not improove the life of the citizens of Somerset.

This is a county election not a national election.

What next we will hire teacher from outside somerset to teach common skill that many somerset citizens citizens have. That way making less job for somerset citizens ... oh wait the rector already do that for two days on a row. My bad

Look pals, I am very happy that you finally get the county loans going, but don't you think will be good that you announce it to the people????

I Start this thread telling about to remind to noob about the paying vote is that done?

Do you have any news project or just political agenda to favorise your party????

Do you do more then just cosmitic change of legal corpus don't know like doing something worth to have at leats one neutral citizens said thank you somerset council you imporve my life?

Well answer that, better doing that before cosmitic change and repeal of laws that serve only to favorise your party ...

*digs up this old and dusty thread*

I was reading though the public council room, where I saw a vote that was split between yes, no and abstain(ism?), but there were only yes and no for the voting options.

I'd like to make the suggestion that all voted placed in the future have yes, no and abstain as voting options, to make the tallying easier

I second that, a very good suggestion, Marshy

I agree with that as well.

It's rude to have discussions in the private council room when not all councilors can get in

I'm meeting on my own in the RK Somerset Council chamber. You're welcome to join me there.

Vana is right, all new Councilors has access now to the RK Somerset Council forum.

(aye, only a day and a half after election was over) before that though, no access

All councilors have access to these forums now as well. I hadn't a list of the councilors before Lady Marshmallow contacted me this morning (RK morning).

Yay!

(and I wasn't complaining, 1 and a half days is better then I've seen before )

i've got a question for Duke Justinan.

Why do the council positions keep changing? And also why was there a need for a decree for Suan when she could have simply got another position that would not interfere with her mayor position. There were others who opted for the judge position so that wouldn't have been a problem.

Thorpe

Well Thorpe, maybe Justin doesn't deem it important enough to reply here, perhaps if you posted this on the main forum he'd pay it more attention?

It seems like Aeryn posted a similar question on the RK forum so I'll just wait for Justin's answer there. That is if he will ever answer

Thorpe

This is probably very late in coming, almost a month later; but I thought i read somewhere that he wasn't interfering with council deliberations in Brostol Council. I could be wrong. At any rate, I see responses all over the place in RK forums. Seems a better place to address issues maybe? A few terms back I tried in vain to contact the Duchess here in Bristol Castle, in RK forums, in GC forums, by in game and forum mail and never received one response. Count yourself lucky. I'd rather get a response I didn't like than no response at all. Just some thoughts to ponder.

DylanLongbranch wrote:

This is probably very late in coming, almost a month later; but I thought i read somewhere that he wasn't interfering with council deliberations in Brostol Council. I could be wrong. At any rate, I see responses all over the place in RK forums. Seems a better place to address issues maybe? A few terms back I tried in vain to contact the Duchess here in Bristol Castle, in RK forums, in GC forums, by in game and forum mail and never received one response. Count yourself lucky. I'd rather get a response I didn't like than no response at all. Just some thoughts to ponder.

I think you may have seen a response, but no answers. Sidestepping, if you will, which is not any better than no response if you ask me. Dill, you championed, and still do, your failed attempts at communicating with Duchess Allikath. I can't count the number of times you have posted about how she never respnonded to you. You were upset, you had the right to be. It is incredibly frustrating to ask those in power, the role models for our citizens, unanswered questions. Thorpe, Mike, myself and many others asked a simple question and never received an answer. I see this no differently. If anything else, this is an even bigger slap in the face since there were multiple people asking the same question and never getting an answer. You normally choose your battles wisely, Dill; and while Justinan gets flack for many things that are worthy of your defence, this is not one. We never got an answer. No way around it.

Rebo wrote:

DylanLongbranch wrote:

This is probably very late in coming, almost a month later; but I thought i read somewhere that he wasn't interfering with council deliberations in Brostol Council. I could be wrong. At any rate, I see responses all over the place in RK forums. Seems a better place to address issues maybe? A few terms back I tried in vain to contact the Duchess here in Bristol Castle, in RK forums, in GC forums, by in game and forum mail and never received one response. Count yourself lucky. I'd rather get a response I didn't like than no response at all. Just some thoughts to ponder.

I think you may have seen a response, but no answers. Sidestepping, if you will, which is not any better than no response if you ask me. Dill, you championed, and still do, your failed attempts at communicating with Duchess Allikath. I can't count the number of times you have posted about how she never respnonded to you. You were upset, you had the right to be. It is incredibly frustrating to ask those in power, the role models for our citizens, unanswered questions. Thorpe, Mike, myself and many others asked a simple question and never received an answer. I see this no differently. If anything else, this is an even bigger slap in the face since there were multiple people asking the same question and never getting an answer. You normally choose your battles wisely, Dill; and while Justinan gets flack for many things that are worthy of your defence, this is not one. We never got an answer. No way around it.

I am dismayed to find my fellow list member for council publicly defaming me in open forum while comiserating with someone so undeserving.
I should not be surprised, I suppose, as this has seemed to be the case for some time.

As to the "person" you comiserate with against me, Rebo.
His "Campaign" was one solely of harrassment, defamation, and personal abuse.
Of course he received no response as he was deserving of none other then perhaps sanctions taken.
I do not respond to abuse, defamation, and harrassing tactics and I do not condone them regarding our present Duke.
Justin and I have had our issues and are not exactly close but he is the Duke and he did what he did for his reasons.
If he choses not to respond to abuse and harrassment for making those decisions that does not make him wrong.
If the council as a whole is unsatisfied with his leadership they can raise the issue in council.

I am deeply hurt by the attitude of another LOF member against me but it seems to be the Chardian consenus.

As I understand the laws, the Duke or Duchess is responsible for appointing and removing council positions. They are entirely at his or her discretion. There is no obligation to justify or discuss why the choices were made.

I have to agree with Allikath that harassment on this issue is not appropriate.

Allikath wrote:

I am dismayed to find my fellow list member for council publicly defaming me in open forum while comiserating with someone so undeserving.
I should not be surprised, I suppose, as this has seemed to be the case for some time.

As to the "person" you comiserate with against me, Rebo.
His "Campaign" was one solely of harrassment, defamation, and personal abuse.
Of course he received no response as he was deserving of none other then perhaps sanctions taken.
I do not respond to abuse, defamation, and harrassing tactics and I do not condone them regarding our present Duke.
Justin and I have had our issues and are not exactly close but he is the Duke and he did what he did for his reasons.
If he choses not to respond to abuse and harrassment for making those decisions that does not make him wrong.
If the council as a whole is unsatisfied with his leadership they can raise the issue in council.

I am deeply hurt by the attitude of another LOF member against me but it seems to be the Chardian consenus.

Alli,

Perhaps I chose my words poorly. What I really meant by the whole comment was that I am surprised to see Dill defending his grace on this issue, simply because he has made it such a campaign to call attention to the fact that he had some unanswered questions with you. It seemed a bit hypocritical to me, and from what I know of Dill he is not a hypocrite.

I have reread my statement and I can see where you offended. I apologize for my poorly articulated statement. You know well that sometimes we are not as articulate as we wish we were, so I hope you accept my apology.

I will not, however, apologize for speaking with Dill. I actually find it offensive that you should think that I would not speak to him. I am also HIGHLY bewildered and offeneded (if I am understanding what you mean) by this statement, "I am deeply hurt by the attitude of another LOF member against me but it seems to be the Chardian consenus." What is the Chardian consensus of which you speak? As you well know, for a good chunk of Somerset's history, people have tried to cast Chard in a strange, cultish light. This portrayal has caused many problems; I hope it will cease.

Alli, I respect you greatly. I like you as a friend and as a political ally. You seem to think that whenever I speak anything but highly of you it means that I neither respect you or like you. I am sorry, truly sorry, that I did not choose my words better; please do not jump to such extreme conclusions.

On to the next topic.

Quote :

If the council as a whole is unsatisfied with his leadership they can raise the issue in council.

First of all, we did. There were plenty of discussions in the council room. Secondly, it was not only council members who brought it up. Off the top of my head, I can think of two non-council members who asked the same question, and they do not have the ability to bring it up in council.

Lady Suan, this may be the first time you have said something that I remotely disagree with. Let's cheers to that!

Quote :

As I understand the laws, the Duke or Duchess is responsible for appointing and removing council positions. They are entirely at his or her discretion. There is no obligation to justify or discuss why the choices were made.

I have to agree with Allikath that harassment on this issue is not appropriate.

I agree that there is no where in the legal corpus that specifically says that the Duke/Duchess must respond to the people who elected him. He has the right, I suppose, to, as you put it, appoint the council at his own discretion ... even if we have strict laws regarding the appointments. Where I disagree, and like I said it is only a remote disagreement, is with the sentiment of what you are saying. I think the Duke should, at the very least, respond to the people's concerns.

If you were Duchess and you had, let's say, 7 people ask you why you made a decision that you did, keeping in mind that some are from your party, would you respond? The people are obviously paying attention and curious, why would you leave them in the dark. It's not like they were all from the opposing political party and simply trying to defame you, these people were genuinely interested. Something tells me that you would respond. Maybe time will prove me right or wrong.

So, Alli - please accept my apology for wording my response to Dylan in a way that was defaming to you. Suan, let's share a beer in the Bristol taverns to celebrate our first disagreement!


Yours honestly,
Rebo

Wow, I am surprised at the level of miscommunication that has occurred here. Miscommunication is very familiar to me given the first days I entered these halls. In my humble opinion, miscommunication was all I saw that was happening: bickering and petty squabbles, throwing cloaked words such as bipartisan "this" or "that" around, etc.

Well thanks to the disarray, I was compelled to attempt to right the wrongs. For my attempts I apologize. I have always been trying to right the wrongs of others mostly which occurred due to miscommunication.

When I posted here, I intended only to relay information for those frustrated with the current situation as I felt their pain deeply. I have tried as time permitted to assist those in their attempts of communication on public forums and behind the scenes to such an extent that our current Duke Lord_Justinan and I have agreed that we may never again speak of politics, in order to save our friendship.

I disagree often times on what he does or how he does it; but never on what he fails to do. And, I tell him what I think. And he listens. And sometimes he agrees. And sometimes he gets sooo upset with me because I don't know all the reasons why he does what he does, and they are good reasons (the ones I have heard, mind you I can not and will not defend every action). And sometimes he has time to enlighten me on those reasons, at which time I feel guilty for causing him so much unnecessary trouble. He means well and I heard the same thing about our Duchess Alikath when I was desperately trying to get answers to what was going on in Council then.

So in short, which it never seems to be, I agree with you Lord Rebo in that our Duke is responsive; however the response does not solve the situation. I also agree that the strength in numbers coming out to address situations is weighed more heavily than my solo attempt, you should have felt the frustration I felt climbing the mountain alone. My frustration sparked the creation of an entire political body, the VoS. Ironically, you can thank the former Duchess and her "sanctions" for the creation of the VoS also.

Alikath wrote:

Of course he received no response as he was deserving of none other then perhaps sanctions taken.

So yes you are correct, we all have seen a response; and not always an answer to some issues. The victory though is the combined effort of all in order to get the problem resolved. A victory I see is the whole LT MikeBlack being removed from the High Command in SAS ordeal. He is now reinstated and moreover, we have Corporals involved in the High Command.

This is exactly why I wanted to create the VoS in the first place. So that common people--not just Councilors, SAS Officers, Mayors, and wealthy merchants; but all people could have the ability to call the aid of the Somerset citizens en masse to assist them in what they felt was either unjust or need of revision. In numbers you guys were able to get LT Mike reinstated, not alone. So yes I agree that numbers signify a weightier problem in the eyes of those in power.

Here's your answer, or my interpretation of the answer:
As Councilors Suan and Alikath have pointed out; it is the Duke's/Duchess' responsibility to appoint the Counselors to their positions and has the right to move them if necessary. It is not their responsibility to tell you why.

Now ironically, this is the same thing being said from opposing parties and under different regimes. Now I will tell you what I suspect. What you don't know is I asked Duke Justinan to step back his first term after winning the majority in Council seats and let Lord Rebo be Duke, as a show of working together. I found out later how insulting that was.

His primary focus the first term was to strengthen the Somerset economy and insure security within its borders. Unless I am wrong, we had a "random" degradation of our mines during Duchess Alikath's reign which was in need of immediate attention. The Duke himself worked the mines everyday for quite some time.

The second term showed signs of economic hardship due to neighboring counties having a shortage of fodder and consequently livestock, which leads to meat, bread, milk, flour and corn shortages. During his first term we had a major criminal incident involving a now revealed Wolves of Sheridan (WOS) member, due to his involvement with the recent overthrow of a town hall up north, Guristas.
http://forum.renaissancekingdoms.com/viewtopic.php?t=64115

This criminal fled due to delayed reporting of the crime coupled with delayed prosecution. The delay in prosecution was on the Public Prosecutor Rebo's side due to IRL circumstance disrupting IG time; however delayed even more significantly, in my opinion, due to the judicial role-play of the criminal’s defense attorney.

So, in order to secure the economic and physical safety of our county, the Duke placed active Councilors in those positions to streamline the growth and/or stability of the economy and the current security situation of Somerset.

So why the switch in mid-term? This is only speculation; however it coincides with the conversation I had with our Duke in our tavern about the Law stating certain council positions could not be held by Councilors who are also mayors. I pleaded, yes pleaded with him to align it with the law. And I asked specifically for Lord Rebo to be reinstated as Public Prosecutor, due to his experience. Is this why the switch happened? I do not know and the Duke does not have to confirm nor deny it.

In my opinion, this is what happens when one man acts alone, rather than a body like VOS working together. I did not know that Lord Rebo would have IRL circumstance not permitting him to be as active as he would like. In essence, if my scenario is correct, then I caused a lot of unnecessary problems, and I am truly sorry.

Now I could just be thinking that I am more influential and powerful than I actually am, lol. I'm neither, for the record. I personally believe that "IF" this happened because of me, then it is solely because the Duke respects me so much as a friend and knows how much I care about Somerset above myself that he might possibly do change the Councilors for me and for Somerset.

All the reasoning I have mentioned is purely speculation and quite possibly my own feelings of guilt and responsibility for any problems here in Somerset.

I can not answer that. But what I can answer is this: No harassment has been done.
If there has been any harassment, I implore you to submit your case and let it be tried. I believe false accusations of harassment can be reversed to show that the harassment case itself could have been leveraged as harassment.

To play interpreter again, Lord Rebo simply stated with perhaps English that was a bit complicated:

Dill, how can you defend Duke Justinan when you attacked Duchess Alikath for the same thing: non-responsiveness. True, the Duke did respond; but he did not answer the question. I'm sure you were frustrated and had that right. Now we are frustrated; and it's not just one person who is frustrated this time. There are several of us frustrated about the same thing. This is a much bigger issue than you were dealing with Dill; yet it is a simple one that deserves a simple answer. Why are you choosing to fight here Dill?

Now, if the last two posts could respond to Lord Rebo's post in this way, we would all be happy. The translation was free of charge by the way, but don't get used to it. I agree that no one, especially the Duke or Duchess should be harassed. That's why we have a law against it. If they feel that they are being harassed, they may file a case in the courts, Duke Justinan has yet to file one and I do not expect him ever to file one on this issue. Councilor Alikath, feel free to file a case against Lord Rebo on the grounds of harassment, yet it is unfounded. It would be humourous though, because as Public Prosecutor he would be faced with reviewing a case against himself. I'd actually say it would be a conflict of interest and an interesting loophole in our law. If it were me as Public Prosecutor in this case I would forward the case to trial to avoid charges of obstruction to justice, whether the evidence was founded or unfounded. So perhaps you should file a case Councilor Alikath as it might see an immediate trial and cloture.

Now to this amazing piece of work. I now understand why I never received a direct response from our previous Duchess:

Alikath wrote:

I am dismayed to find my fellow list member for council publicly defaming me in open forum while comiserating with someone so undeserving.
I should not be surprised, I suppose, as this has seemed to be the case for some time.

As to the "person" you comiserate with against me, Rebo.
His "Campaign" was one solely of harrassment, defamation, and personal abuse.
Of course he received no response as he was deserving of none other then perhaps sanctions taken.
I do not respond to abuse, defamation, and harrassing tactics and I do not condone them regarding our present Duke.
Justin and I have had our issues and are not exactly close but he is the Duke and he did what he did for his reasons.
If he choses not to respond to abuse and harrassment for making those decisions that does not make him wrong.
If the council as a whole is unsatisfied with his leadership they can raise the issue in council.

I am deeply hurt by the attitude of another LOF member against me but it seems to be the Chardian consenus.

To Councilor Alikath:
Whoa now, calm down. By your own admission you are guilty of what you claim as being defamation:

Rebo wrote:

Dill, you championed, and still do, your failed attempts at communicating with Duchess Allikath. I can't count the number of times you have posted about how she never respnonded to you. You were upset, you had the right to be. It is incredibly frustrating to ask those in power, the role models for our citizens, unanswered questions.

I can only assume that you cry defamation by Councilor Rebo because he restated that I said in open forum that you were unresponsive. I did, several times. That is no secret and furthermore it is the truth by your own admission of guilt. However, I was never brought up on defamation charges ever. Not once. Why? Because there were no grounds for defamation charges to be leveraged against me.

Alikath wrote:

Of course he received no response as he was deserving of none other then perhaps sanctions taken.

In this situation and in many Lord Rebo and I agree. It is the responsibility of every Councilor to live up to the expectations of those whom they were elected by. My dear friend and Councilor Suan is also correct, the law protects the Ducal position by giving them the ability to do such an action. It also protects them and every citizen from harassment. Though I believe we can all agree that no harassment has occurred because we so no evidence filed in the Public Prosecutor’s office by either the present Duke or previous Duchess.

What I do find amazing is that one person feels that the entire city of Chard is against them. Moreover, this claim is unfounded:

Alikath wrote:

I am dismayed to find my fellow list member for council publicly defaming me in open forum while comiserating with someone so undeserving.
I should not be surprised, I suppose, as this has seemed to be the case for some time.

As to the "person" you comiserate with against me, Rebo.
His "Campaign" was one solely of harrassment, defamation, and personal abuse.
Of course he received no response as he was deserving of none other then perhaps sanctions taken.
I do not respond to abuse, defamation, and harrassing tactics and I do not condone them regarding our present Duke.

I find this entire reference to be defamatory. I am defined as “undeserving” of what, recognition as a human being and a citizen of Somerset? Am I an animal or a foreigner to Somerset soil so that I do not deserve the same rights as other citizens? Am I so foul that a Councilor can be accused of defamation on the sole grounds that he restated what I have said? I must be something abhorrent. Thank you for those kind words. Immediately after the election I will file a case of defamation, so as not to be accused of influencing the election by creating a scandal which I did not create.

DILL OUT

I feel I have to add to what I mentioned earlier. In my own case, in the previous term, I experienced an irl sudden illness. The Duke was informed and removed me as Sheriff and replaced me for a time until I could resume my duties. I did not ask him to reveal the details of my situation to the council or anyone else.

It therefore occurs to me that changes in appointments can be made for private reasons of the persons in those positions and not at the whim of the Duke. He should not be held accountable to the public for matters that he has not been requested to make public.

As far as the latest pickle stew....oh, Dill! Please take what has been said by others with a grain of salt. Please choose your actions and words based on your own good judgement, and not re-act to the perceived unkindness of others. I know you for a thoughtful man, please be true to yourself.

Honestly, I want to congratulate Dill on his last post, I find it easy to read, and containing some sound logic and thinking. Far better then the 2nd last post of his, which could be construed as griping/whining or some such.

Really, I don't have much to add, I particularly liked the joke about filing a defamation suit on a defamation suit (I brought that up before in a completely different situation too).

We actually had a very similar line of reasoning in a discussion in the private council in regards to the duke not needing to say why they do things, of course the duke never did explain, so we were left to our own conclusions, which is the problem with not answering. If you want to have the whole council cooperate you've got to give a little, even to the opposing party.

Regarding Suan's:

Honestly I see no reason to hide that information from councillors, in fact, if that was the reason for changing councillor positions, thats such a much better conclusion then letting everyone wonder why in the world things changed. If someone is sick and thats the honest reason for switching them, why hide that and not tell the council?

I suppose there lies a difference between telling the public and telling the council, but neither happened and as such it reaffirms my belief that the duke doesn't have reasons for a lot of things that happen, or at least not reasons he'd want at all public (or even the opposing party to know), I firmly believe the duke should be held accountable for all choices he makes, whether it was asked to be public or not, there needs to be checks and balances, and honestly, ignoring honest questions (not harassment as has been said), will only lead the suspicious and/or the opposing party to negative beliefs, why would he hide the truth?

I had never stated that Rebo defamed me in his statement. I merely stated that it bothered me that he, considering our relationship and experience together, publicly criticized me in regard to the Dill situation.
I have never filed a defamation suit against anyone even though many were deserving of such at times as Rebo and most others well know. Rebo knows I never filed one against Krelian, who if anyone was deserving it was him or against any of the others who continuously attacked me in public for nothing more then partisan political agendas.
I do not agree with the defamation laws and I have always said so and so I would not use or abuse them for my own benefit or peace of mind.
As to my comment pertaining to Chard it referred to members of LOF not an "entire town".
Rebo and this Dill are so concerned about how their own words can be misunderstood but do not take the same thing iinto account while twisting the words of others to suit their own purposes. Rebo, I know only too well how words can be misspoken and not phrased exactly right to convey the properly intended meaning. I am the perfect example of that. No one in RK is as misinterpreted as I am, as you well know by now.
I apologize if I misinterpreted your statement but it read how it read.

I have defamed no one. My statement was my own personal opinion. I merely stated that in my own sense anyone who abused, harrassed, and defamed me constantly in public for no good reason other then partisan tactics was in my own mind undeserving of any response from me other then being ignored.
That is my opinion and my response and I am surely entitled to it no matter whether it sooths someones inner sensibilities or not.