[Discussion] Judicial treaty with Bourbonnais Auvergne

Bourdonnais Auvergne have made the requested modifications and voted on the treaty as well. Shall we put it to a vote as well? I didnt see that question from Duke Hypno earlier.

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This current clause in no way binds the two parties to a mutual defence pact.

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It means this treaty doesnt have a mutal defence pact as part of it. So there is no mutual defence pact, just a pact of non-aggression towards each other.

Treaty :

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In their almighty wisdom, Lord Hypno, Count of Somerset, and Messire Melkio, Duke of Bourdonnais Auvergne, wish to express their friendship by establishing this Treaty of Agreement that binds the peoples of Somerset and Bourbonnais Auvergne.

1. Language
Each duchy or county party to this treaty will send a competent ambassador to the alliance, able to speak both languages, and enjoying the trust of the duke or count so that he can be certain that all exchanges will be kept strictly confidential.

2. Translations
If circumstances allow, the ambassadors can be requested by any member of a duchy or county party to the treaty to make a translation destined to the official instances of their duchy or county. For existing texts that could be modified and required translation, the translation can be partial, and restricted to the portions that were modified.


Article I - Non- Aggression pact


They mutually ensure the inviolability of their current borders.
This current clause in no way binds the two parties to a mutual defence pact.


Article II - Another treaty‘s participation

The contracting parties commit themselves to not sign any treaty, agreement or clause which could prove hostile or unfriendly towards the counterpart or which could conflict with this one.
By hostile, it is meant by any action that would involve a military attack, invasion or strike.

Article III - Co-operation pact

Any person having committed a crime or a felony in the territory of a contracting party should be apprehended and put on trial to be judged by the contracting party on the territory where the suspect is or where he is suspected to be.

Article IV - Right of the Applicant

The investigation, arrest procedure, and trial would be done “by delegation” by the Contracting Party who has submitted the procedure (called the Applicant) and the Contracting Party of the territory where these steps are engaged must ensure itself to respect the right of the Applicant (at the place where crime has been committed).

Article V - Judgement’s procedure
Prosecution act will be written by the Public Prosecutor of the Applicant following the laws and customs of his county.
This prosecution act will be sent to his counterpart who will request a specific sentence
The translated records of the trial have to be sent by the Judge of the Applicant

The sentence will be written by the Judge of the Applicant following the laws and customs of his county and sent to his counterpart for opinion. This latter will decide without appeal and will give a ruling following laws and customs of the Applicant.


Article VI - Co-operation between Sergeants and Courts of Justice

Sergeants and Courts of Justice members of the Contracting Parties (Sergeants, Sheriffs, judges, Public Prosecutors, and Clerks must insure collaboration together and actively aiming:

-To share their information about anyone or any illegal group suspected as dangerous. To inform, by sending a warning call about any offence that could occur in the territory of each contracting party.

-To act when a crime has been committed if the delinquent is in the territory of the contracting party. To send a written request used to open an inquiry, to arrest, to charge and to judge the suspect.

Article VII - Request form

Quote:
Duchy/County of______________

Type of Request: Search description/Warning

Sender (Name, position):

Date of sending:

Suspect(s) (Names):

Offence/crime description:

Offence/Crime location:

Suspects's identity card:


Article VIII –others

Conditions, especially about defendant’s rights will be discussed by Judges, Public Prosecutor, and sergeants of each contracting party.
Clerks of each contracting parties will file the records of trials.

Article IX - Treaty’s value

If one contracting party doesn’t respect, or breaks his allegiance to His King or His Regent, the present treaty can be immediately and definitively cancelled by the counter part, without compensation. In this event, this present Treaty will be definitively broken.

Article X - Failure to keep the treaty in force

In case of treaty cancellation, the on-going cases between the two counties will not be stopped and should continue until the end of its judgement.

Article XI - Treaty cancellation process

Each contracting party wishing to put an end to this treaty should send an official and formal letter to the counter part. The latter is given four days in order to rescind it. After this time and without a formal response, the Treaty shall be automatically cancelled.
Each contracting party must publish an official and formal declaration concerning the cancellation of the treaty in the inns and embassies.

Articles XII - Treaty modifications

By mutual consensus, it is possible to decide to rewrite the Treaty in its wholeness or partiality.

Article XIII - Coming into effect

It is agreed that the present Treaty of Agreement will be renewed automatically each council term unless a new council wishes to invoke Article XI - Treaty cancellation process


Signing in the Embassy of Bourbonnais Auvergne, febrary 7th of 1455

On behalf of Bourbonnais Auvergne 's Duchy :
- Messire Melkio, Duke of Bourbonnais Auvergne

- Dame Themis , Chambellan du Bourbonnais Auvergne


On behalf of Somerset 's County:
-Lord Hypno, County of Somerset
- ___________________, Chamberlain of Somerset.

Witness pour le Bourbonnais Auvergne :
- Tommy 78, Ambassadeur du Bourbonnais Auvergne

Witness for Somerset's County:
- ___________________, Ambassador ___________






Traité d'Entente entre le Comté du Somerset et le Duché du Bourbonnais Auvergne.

Dans leur grande sagesse, leurs seigneuries Lord Hypno, Comte de Somerset et Melkio , Duc du Bourbonnais Auvergne ont souhaité mettre par écrit le présent traité d'entente qui lie les peuples du Somerset et du Bourbonnais Auvergne.

1. Langue utilisée
Chacun des duchés/comtés contractants de ce traité dépêchera un ambassadeur compérent, qui sera capable de communiquer dans les deux langues et qui aura la confiance du Duc/Comte afin que ce dernier soit assuré de la confidentialité de tous les échanges.

2. Traductions.
Si les circonstances le permettent, les ambassadeurs pouront être appelés par chacune des parties contractantes du traité pour effectuer une traduction destinée aux instances officielles de leur Duché/Comté. Concernant les textes en vigueur qui seraient modifiés et necessiteraient une traduction, celle ci pourra être partielle et s'en tenir aux seuls passages concernés.

Article I - De l’engagement à la non agression

Elles garantissent mutuellement l'inviolabilité de leurs frontières existantes.
La présente clause ne crée aucune obligation de défense mutuelle.


Article II - De la participation à tout traité
Les Hautes Parties contractantes s'engagent à ne participer à aucun traité, accord ou convention hostile à l'autre partie signataire et contraire au présent traité. Sont considérés comme hostiles les traités, accords ou conventions visant à nuire ou à s'emparer par la force d'une partie du territoire de l'un des deux contractants.

Article III - Du principe de coopération
Tout individu ayant commis un délit ou un crime au regard de la loi et du coutumier applicable dans le territoire d'un contractant devra être, sur demande, recherché, appréhendé, mis en accusation et jugé par le contractant sur le territoire duquel l'individu se trouve ou est soupçonné de se trouver.

Article IV - De l'application du droit du requérant
L' enquête, l'arrestation, la mise en accusation, le jugement étant réalisé pour et par délégation du contractant ayant émis la requête (appelé requérant), le contractant sur le territoire duquel ces démarches sont effectuées s'engage à respecter le droit du contractant requérant (sur le territoire duquel a eu lieu l'infraction).

Article V -De la procédure de jugement
Le Procureur du requérant rédige l'acte d'accusation en prenant soin d'y faire paraître les lois ou coutumes sur lesquels l'acte repose. Il le transmet à son homologue, qui rendra le réquisitoire en le suivant.

Le Juge requérant doit recevoir les minutes du procès.

Le Juge du requérant rédige l'acte de jugement en prenant soin d'y faire paraître les lois ou coutumes sur lesquels l'acte repose. Il le transmet à son homologue pour avis. Ce dernier reste souverain dans son jugement, et motivera celui-ci à l'aide de la loi et du coutumier du requérant.

Article VI - De la coopération des Prévôtés et des Cours de Justice
Les membres des Prévôtés et Cours de Justice des Hautes Parties Contractantes (Prévôts, Lieutenants et Sergents des Prévôtés, Juges, Procureurs et Greffiers) s'engagent à collaborer activement:

- en partageant leurs renseignements sur les individus ou groupes d'individus identifiés comme potentiellement dangereux. Ils avertissent ainsi, en émettant un Avis de mise en garde, de tout trouble pouvant affecter un contractant sur son territoire;

- en saisissant la Justice lorsqu'un délit ou crime a été commis et que le prévenu est sur le territoire d'un contractant. Ils émettent alors un Avis de recherche, qui est une requête destinée à procéder à l'enquête, à l'arrestation, l'inculpation et le jugement de la personne incriminée.

Article VII - De la requête
Emise par un fonctionnaire du contractant, elle est formulée comme suit:
Citation:

Duché/Comté de______________

Nature de la requête: Avis de recherche/Avis de mise en garde

Emetteur (Nom, Fonction):

Date d'émission:

Individu(s) incriminé(s) (Noms):

Descriptif du délit/crime ou de la dangerosité:

Localisation du délit/crime et du ou des individus:

Articles de loi sur lesquels s’appuie la requête:
(uniquement en cas d'avis de recherche)

Fiche d'identité du ou des individus:


Article VIII - Des dispositions annexes
Les modalités annexes, notamment celles relatives aux droits des inculpés seront discutées par les Juges, Procureurs et Prévôts des contractants. Les Greffiers des contractants procèderont à l'archivage des procès.

Article IX - De la validité du traité
Dans le cas où un contractant n’a pas respecté ou a rompu son allégeance à son Roy ou son Empereur, le présent traité peut être de facto dénoncé de plein droit par l’autre contractant, sans délai, sans qu’aucune compensation puisse être exigée. Le traité dénoncé est aussitôt considéré comme nul.

Article X - Des manquements au traité
En cas d'annulation du Traité, les dossiers judiciares en cours entre les deux duchés continueront à être traités jusqu'à la fin du jugement.

Article XI - De la procédure de dénonciation du traité
Le contractant souhaitant mettre fin au présent traité devra faire parvenir une lettre officielle à l'autre contractant. Ce dernier dispose de quatre jours ouvrables pour en prendre acte. Sans réponse officielle le mentionnant, le présent contrat est réputé nul passé ce délai. Les parties contractantes s’engagent à publier de façon officielle une lettre spécifiant la rupture du contrat.

Article XII - De la modification du traité
Par consentement mutuel, la réécriture du traité peut être effectuée dans son intégralité ou partiellement.

Article XIII - De l'entrée en vigueur du traité
Le présent traité d'entent sera renouvellé par tacite reconduction à chaque terme du conseil ducal en cours sauf dans le cas où un nouveau conseil souhaiterait appliquer la clause de L'article XI concernant la rupture du traité.


Signé à l’Ambassade du Bourbonnais Auvergne, le 7 février 1455

Au nom du Duché du Bourbonnais Auvergne :
- Melkio, Duc du Bourbonnais Auvergne

- Themis, Chambellan du Bourbonnais Auvergne


Au nom du Comté de Cornwall :
-Lord Hypno, Comte de Somerset
- ___________________, Chambellan _____________

Témoin pour le Bourbonnais Auvergne :
- Tommy 78, Ambassadeur du Bourbonnais Auvergne

Témoin pour le Somerset:
- ___________________, Ambassadeur ___________

I propose that an article is added dictating as follows:

Noone is prosecuted or otherwise chased for his political activity, under the provisions of this treaty.

Aucun n'est poursuivi ou est autrement chassé pour sa activité politique, sous les dispositions de ce traité.

Is there a law against political activity in Auvergne?

Don't know about Auvergne but in Somerset there are quite a lot of laws hindering political activity. The whole idea behind my proposal is that such treaties should apply only to "ordinary" penal offences,leaving out any political activity characterised or gonna-be-characterised as criminal by any of the two counties.

Poliphilus wrote:

Don't know about Auvergne but in Somerset there are quite a lot of laws hindering political activity. The whole idea behind my proposal is that such treaties should apply only to "ordinary" penal offences,leaving out any political activity characterised or gonna-be-characterised as criminal by any of the two counties.

I am not sure I understand, can someone explain it to me better

I haven't got the time right now to visit the Auvergne forum,seek their legal corpus and spot laws that I would consider as incompatible with my idea of political freedom. Nevertheless there are plenty of such (icompatible with political freedom) provisions in our Legal Corpus. Want an example? Anybody convicted for speculation (a light economic crime) will be prosecuted if he/she participates in an election's list in Somerset. Well, I believe that people who try to flee the kind of justice that I ,as a libertarian, cosider authoritative and unjust, shouldn't be hindered by that treaty. Whoever doesn't share my notion of Freedom and Justice has the right to oppose my proposal. But I want everyone to understand my point of view.

Havent you heard of a person approaching the council and requesting permission to run? Or that the Duke can also grant it?

It is also allowed under the law, go read it.

I dont see anyone contesting an election in Somerset while they are in Auvergne either lol.

By the way, slavery can be done unknowingly. But speculation? You obviously need to buy the item, then put it back up for sale at a higher price for it to be deemed speculation.

I don't see what you find funny Sajanzv. In any case what I find unacceptable is "pardons" granted by politicians at their discretion.

The only thing I would find remotely funny in my post would be this

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I dont see anyone contesting an election in Somerset while they are in Auvergne either lol

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In any case what I find unacceptable is "pardons" granted by politicians at their discretion

I find the use of the word "politicians" very saddening.
If that is so, then its "politicians" who are serving as public prosecutors and judges as well. Its "politicians" who make trades, publish reports and so forth. And whatever they do is based on their "discretion". Reminds me of when Teagan refused to trial those cases during the first term, it was his discretion. Did you find that unacceptable as well?

If you cant trust the Duke or the entire council to make a decision based on fairness, then thats your problem. I trust my fellow councilors to do their jobs and to deal with situations based on their intellect and fairness of mind.

The Auvergne ambassador asked about the status of the treaty. I humbly request Duke Hypno to put it to a vote.

We have already had a discussion in the treaty before in the RK forums, and the changes they made reflect our requests that we made last time around.