Discussion- Moving all county business back to RK forum.

It has been suggested that the county business be moved back to the RK forum and that is where it belongs.

What do you think?

Isabella has been a very active admin, very responsive to all requests. But what if she is not always available. I think we have more flexibility here. The ability to create and manipulate these forums to match the needs of the county.

I appreciate the ability to come here and complete all the reading I have to to catch up on county business. I am not unhappy with these forums.

I think perhaps we should or could move the public viewing area of the council chambers back to the in game forum so that more citizens of Somerset have access. Perhaps we could add this to the spokesman's job description. To update each of the public viewing areas here and in game so that we and the citizens are aware of the activities we have gotten up to.

Having seen the discussions that take place whenever a county council wishes to add subforums, the trouble they have getting the moderators set correctly, the difficulty with changing admins to keep up with the changing composition of hte county councils, i'd say to stay here. Besdies, do we really want the RK mods to have authority over our debates, discussions and even our fighting?

Can someone briefly outline the pros and cons of moving it back to the RK forum. I imagine I can think of a few (more people read RK forum, less autonomy), but I have little experience with this. Any experienced voice want to shed some light?

Much appreciated,
Rebo

I say no, I quite like it here.

Yes Counselor Rebo I will be glad to outline the differences but I will not label them pro or con as that is subjective to the individual to decide if it is a positive or negative to them based on their personal choices.

RK forums offer:

• more visibility which may encourage more interest and shows a presence that newer people may not realize exists and offers them more access as people are sometimes too overwhelmed or lazy to search out and or access off site forums.
  
  
• Stricter control over material posted and less opportunity to sweep it under the rug as the laws for the public forums carry over to the private forums on the public forum now. Any violators would be subject to whatever sanctions are assigned to the offense they commit up to and including suspension.
  
  
• They do NOT offer the space available here on Bristol or the immediate access to change of forum set up. They do not guarantee the same availability of sub forums to maintain the various offices and areas we currently have in use here. Here we have the most extensive embassy and military set up of any county in game to my knowledge.
  
  

Given the number of SAS members who have found their way here (all of them), I believe that having an offsite forum is less of a barrier than it may seem. Those inclined towards using the RK forums are unlikely to be unwilling to take the time to click to another forum; those unwilling to use any forum won't be seen on the RK ones either.

I vote for moving back council matters to the RK forum. It's easier to have everything in one place, and if we don't trust the censors there or the responsiveness isn't good enough then rather than give up on them and escape here we should work to get improvements made, as it is probably a concern for other counties too.

There is not a problem with responsiveness. There are certain rules for forums that ALL groups on the forum have to abide by as far as how much space is allocated to them and how many sub forums that they are allowed. Requests are filled but cannot be filled on immediate notice as they can here because here 2 sitting members of council hold admin privilege. On RK requests must be made to the Player Admin who fills requests in order received.

And noone has mentioned a distrust of censors save yourself. The censors themselves do not monitor private forums but since the Keg incident the rules of how one may conduct themselves when posting DO apply to all private forums as well as public and therefore any posts such as have occurred here in the last few months that are simply placed in the trash forum here would garner admin action and suspension there.

Yes, I do distrust some of the censors on the RK forum. I guess I have a general distrust of any group that does not hold themselves completely accountable and open to public criticism. I suspect I'm not the only one too, and that that's why they have been changed around pretty often recently. But in spite of that, I really believe most censors there are really trying hard to be impartial and fair, and that's why I vote for moving back to the RK forum.

I'm not sure whether by 'private forums' you are referring only to closed usergroup subforums of the RK forum, but I don't believe all main RK forum rules apply to all forums such as this one, since requests to RK admin concerning posts in this forum have been ignored by them. I do think that some posts that have appeared here in the past and simply been deleted did deserve admin action and suspension there, rather than sweeping under the carpet here. I also think that it's important to distinguish between role played criticisms (such as when I say I disagree with a mayor's action, or county law, or party policy, or even a King's decision) and personal criticism, such as when someone says that so-and-so is nasty or evil or racist or harassing etc. We all need to be mature enough to enjoy in game competition without being disrespectful. It's when people can't separate the two that a game about politics and team work degenerates into something which causes people to lose interest in the game. I noted that in the RK forum recently, a player recently involved in an accident announced her decision to give up playing because she said RK was 'a source of stress'. But games are meant to be a source of escapism and relaxation and fun, not stress.

I'm not advocating closing this forum. There are facilities here, such as the dice, which are great for SAS games. I just feel that the work of the council should stay in the main game forum where more people will see it. I would like people from other counties and countries to be able to share ideas and learn from our discussions, not just those few in Somerset who have been keen enough to register here. I think it would benefit the game as a whole to have more potential participants in all areas.

RK censors have no jurisdiction here. That is not what Ellsbeth said. ALL posting rules on the game forum apply to ALL forums there. That is what she said.

Censors are fully accountable. They are in animal form to prevent the abuse that some players take GREAT glee in heaping on the censors player character. As you say some people are incapable of separating reality and the game. Some people are incapable of separating the animal from the player character. It is supposed to be a game and fun. That includes the people that are willing to serve the game by accepting to act as censor. They are not paid, they are not reimbursed, they are harassed and they are attacked as themselves in RL in some past instances.

Now that has nothing to do with moving or not. I doubt it will sway anyones opinion and it will sure not educate anyone to the truth. But I had to say it.

We have a great deal more flexibility and a lot more responsiveness to our needs here. There is no great unwashed masses hammering at the door for information. There are not 400 people per town waiting to see what this council is doing. Likely all the people that want to know are here already. Look on the forums. How many post. How many in the past have asked questions of council? These people you speak of, they do not exist. Not citizens of Somerset at least. I do not know about the rest of you, I am here to serve Somerset, not the rest of England, not people from outside. I serve Somerset and I believe we can do our job faster and more efficiently here.

Actually Vana you are incorrect. Recently a player sent an obscene PM via this forum to the Trade minister and it was brought before the censor council via a PM to admin and this player was eradicated in game by LJS and from the RK forum by Isabella. It was not ignored and was acted upon promptly.

LJS is the final arbiter of Rules and he as the game owner decreed that censors are not to be publicly debated and set up a private ladder of complaint to assure concerns are addressed without disruption to the forum and to the game. He made that abundantly clear and established a forum law against such public display. This was not decided by the censors themselves but by the person they work for. So there is not a conspiracy to prevent the public from lodging complaint simply a process dictated for it.

The recent changeover in Censor council was due to a censor who was caught providing identification of censors to fellow players which is strictly forbidden. It had nothing to do with the censor council itself on the whole, simply the poor ethics of one person who is no longer on staff. So your speculation on this matter is not valid either as it is not due to censor misconduct on a grand scale but due to one individual. So all of the negative stigma you seek to attach to your perceptions of the admin or censors are simply not factual. Rather than speculating on these matters you always have the option of inquiry in the forum via Zoo Q/A.

as to Private forums on RK, yes the posting rules posted for main forum DO apply to private forums, to all forums that utilize the RK website. Using profanity is grounds for suspension which has occurred here on several occasions and which is clearly spelled out in RK forum violation protocols to be grounds for immediate suspension.

and as this discussion has long since made the turn from what is best for the people of Somerset to debate of the way the RK forums are set up and governed I make a motion the proposal be voted on.

I have always been an advocate of the off site forum because of the diversity it provides in setting up sections and sub sections to accommedate all our business.

However in light of recent events I think the county may be served better by being in the RK forum to ensure the prosperity and retention of all the records of the council and council business.

I am also of mind lately that the impartial over site of censors, admins, and LJS would be in the best interest of this and future councils.

But I really am undecided personally.

I second the motion to move to vote.