Deputy Sheriffs - A Public Consultation

This thread is intended to be place for me to collect input from interested parties about an idea I have for the creation of Deputy Sheriffs. I hope to gather the opinions and suggestions from people such as ex-mayors and ex-councillors as well as concerned citizens and traders, before putting together a final version of my proposal for more detailed discussions with the current mayors and councillors, which will then hopefully go to a vote for their approval.

The idea is to help both the county and the mayors of Somerset in the running of their town economies through the appointment of county Deputy Sheriffs.

My idea is that one or two people in each Somerset town would be appointed deputy sheriffs.

The deputies would serve several purposes.
a) they would act as inspiration to people in the towns to become involved in the way their towns and counties are run, and as focal points for questions on how things work and how to find out and how to change things.
b) they would monitor town markets and note the availability of goods and prices, and report on these to both the mayor and county council.
c) they would assist in reminding people of the laws (e.g. on slavery, speculation, hoarding) and bring cases of law breaking to the attention of the prosecutor.
d) they would promote participation in mine working, and in county and town lotteries
e) (And this is the controversial part for which I most want your input) The deputies could also act as buyers on behalf of the county and mayors. The sheriff could give them grants for them to purchase certain items from town markets under certain strict conditions to be agreed by the mayors and county trade minister. By being able to monitor the markets they may be able to spot bargains, or excess inventory, and acquire it using the grants. These goods could then be transferred to the town hall through the county fair or through grants of goods (or they could be used as exports or for fodder etc) as required. This would enable shortages and surpluses across the county to be balanced out, make prices more equitable between Somerset towns, help places like Bristol which has too few active producers, and help the county and mayors to get cheaper goods to those in need of them. The purchase conditions could restrict item types, min or max prices, overall amounts of goods over certain times, overall cost of purchases over certain times, and we could simply have expiry dates on the grants, as required and specified by the mayors of the towns in which they operated or by the Trade Minister. I think this could help mayors to acquire items without having to open the town hall purchasing system; help to prevent the effects of foreign traders dumping on individual markets; reduce the need for the county to import goods; and increase local producers profits.

I am also hoping that by giving out 'official' titles of deputy sheriff, perhaps with a badge for their signature, and by them having to work with councillors and mayors, and thus becoming better known, people might be more interested in doing this task, and it would encourage more active participation and interest among our citizens.

I would like to know what you think of the idea in principle. I would especially appreciate input from those with experience of being a mayor or mentor or of leading a trade guild, or being a councillor, so please mention such experience when you post your comments here. If you have concerns that you feel should not be made public then please PM me.

I am hoping that this kind of open initial public consultation (a first for Somerset?) will help stimulate interest in political work, help us get better proposals through council procedures more smoothly, and allow us to fully consider ideas from all sectors of the community before acting.

I don't fit into your requested categories, so please do take what I say with a grain of salt.
a) Sounds like the person will be part social convenor, part mentor - and there can never be enough mentoring
b) I'm kinda surprised that this hasn't been done previously. It might be worthwhile asking why it hasn't been done (could just be a question of time, so it can't hurt). Reporting to the mayor probably isn't critical as I would expect mayors would know what's going on in their markets ... but from a sharing of information point of view, it can't hurt.
c) Actually, i thought that there was a position that already dealt with this (marshal if I remember correctly from the recruiting notice in Bristol?). It's tough to deal with specualtion as it usuall requires funds to purchase the goods in order to confirm. I can only speak with bridgewater, but part of the reason why we rarely face slavery issues is ... if someone posts a 12 pound job, they receive 2 or 3 e-mails almost immediately as our townsfolk take the initiative to do so. We missed one about a month ago ... but I haven't even seen a case needing correction since that time. I've done this for ages without a title, and I'd like to think that others who take an interest in their fellow townspeople would do the same (as frequently this is either an accident, or an opportunity to mentor a new level 1). Could be helpful to identify hoarding ... with the same caveat that funds are needed to confirm whose goods they are.
d) Not a bad thing. In b/w this seems to be done via the mayor's message (and up to this month the quarry was consistently full). But additional reminders can't hurt if the mining lottery, TH message and mentoring doesn't quite cover it.
e) As you expected, I'm kinda questioning this. Perhaps it's because I've only known a succession of mayors who are active in the local economy, but throughout my time our mayors have monitored the market carefully and exported / purchased surplus as necessary. Having someone purchase products and transfer them to their town via the county market (if I understood one of your points corectly) is a rather expensive way for the mayor to conduct their business - or for the county as they'll usually subsidize the 50 pound fee. I would anticipate that most mayors have people granted within their own towns to watch the market for one or two products, and to ensure that availability exists, product is moved, shortages are noted and county requests are dealt with.
From what I understand, there is an existing support mechanism (goodswise) for Bristol, so it might be best just to leave that system in place. For the other towns, I recognize that there will be times that unforseen occurances lead to shortages. Bridgewater had an issue with buckets for a while, and dealt with this via trade with another town within Somerset. But if there's a town that is facing chronic shortages of items, sometimes a bit of tough love is better than assistance. Council the town, assist the town from time to time, but long term problems might be a management issue that needs to be solved as opposed to enabling it to continue. I always worry that programs such as this can lead to dependance if you're not careful.
The other concern is one that Justin brought up in the main forums. One of the sources for town weath is the trade margins earned through purchasing goods from their own market, and trading these to the county. In some ways, your proposal cuts the town out of these dealings, and will syphon profits to the county. If you're looking to support county programs via this mechanism, then perhaps deputies is the way to go. But the libertarian in me believes that initiatives are often better handled at the town level, where they're closer to their populace and its needs.
Regarding your foreign trader dumping laws ... bridgewater has a requirement (perhaps law. I'm not sure) that traders must discuss their proposal with the mayor prior to dealing with our market in large volumes. I know of one case where the person didn't, the mayor identified the person, and asked that they remove the goods that had been dumped in the market without prior approval. I can only base my thoughts on my experience, but I fully anticipate that all mayors are as active and aware of their markets as the last few have been in Bridgewater, so this function might not be necessary.

As I said before, I can't speak for the other towns in Somerset ... heck, I'm not qualified to speak for b/w itself as I'm not deeply involved in the governing of the town. That being said, as one who loves to find a bargain (and will always advise people if they've made a large mistake in pricing and offer to return the goods to them), I've always been able to see when the mayors have been active in the market. I'm not aiming to actively affirm or refute any of your points, as I don't have the necessary knowledge to back my points up. That being said, I am hoping that my ground level observations based on one town's experience will offer either points to consider, or a foil for future discussions.

P.S. Sorry for the gramatical and spelling issues... pre midterm insomnia never leads to proper expression of ideas.

I think all in all that it's a great idea, save only for one portion, Vana. You, I'm sure, expected me to take issue with your point (e). I shan't disappoint you ...

The towns derive a substantial amount of income from selling fodder, and other commodities, to the county. Having deputy sheriffs as purchasing agents would shortcircuit that, as they'd be purchasing direct from the town markets. Also, the Laws of Somerset clearly delineate the responsibilities of the Sheriff and Trade Minister*. On those grounds, I would have to object to the Deputy Sheriffs acting as purchasing agents for the county.

Too, one of the jobs of the Trade Minister is the very balancing you speak of. I do a lot of trading, and not only for strategic materials - fodder, iron, etc. - but for foodstuffs, crafted goods, other raw materials - anything, in short, that our towns might need. Then, when Bath needs wool, the mayor simply drops me a note, or an IM, and asks about it. Or when Gloucester needs wood, or Bridgewater wants fish ... I might ask a mayor if they want some particular item, if I know that the market in their town is short on it, or has particularly high prices. Those too are functions of the Trade Minister position, not the Sheriff's role.

With the recent change to the autobuy, allowing mayors MUCH more control than was the case even a month ago, they don't have to worry about leaving the autobuy open, but can use it as a tool providing instant cash to those in need of that, and added profits to the town coffers.

All in all, Vana, I support your Deputy Sheriff proposal in all points save the last one, which is both an infringement upon the duties of the Trade Minister and illegal under current County law.

Catullus, the 50 pound fee is paid only when you purchase on the County Fair. However, as that fee goes directly to the county coffers, I fix the prices so that the towns effectively don't pay that 50 pound tax. For instance, if a town was buying say, 25 meat, which the county sells at 17.70, I would put it on the market at 15.70. This isn't an innovation I've come up with, but the way county/town transactions have long been done.

*From Book One, Article 1.2.4 of the Legal Corpus of Somerset:

Quote :

ii. The Sheriff manages the breeding of livestock, is in overall charge of administration of the mines, and in charge of issuing money grants from the County funds. The Sheriff can also allocate funds to the Sergeant for purposes of the Army and Constabulary forces of the Duchy

iv. The Trade minister is in charge of overall trade in the Duchy. He controls the County fair and the productions of the County.

Thanks for the confirmation of the 50 pound fair fee reimbursement process. I was aware that it was usually subsidized - I quickly learned that something of this nature was done as there was often one item on the county fair listed significantly higher for purchase by the county than others (silly nosy citizens like me should have better things to do with their time). I wasn't sure how this mechanism would be applied by deputies dealing directly with the town through the county fair though, but I imagine this could be dealt with if and when the corpus is modified to accomodate Vana's point e.

Please be aware that we are discussing a proposal here which may well require an amendment or addition to the laws to make it legal. So the current laws should not be considered an impediment per se to the concepts presented. I want to hear whether you feel there would be merit or drawbacks in bringing this about, other than protection of the status quo for its own sake. (We should also leave party political considerations until the time comes to debate a final version of the ideas in council.)
I realise that our Mayors and Trade Minister already do a pretty good job of moving things around. But that's not a reason to stay still and not improve further if we can. The deputies could assist them, and report to them. Mayors can't watch the market as much as mayors together with deputies could. Plus deputies could, if it was so wished, in effect take orders for goods from mayors, like deputy mayors in a way, buying goods using county funds, and having those goods transferred back to the mayors either via the exisiting county fair mechanism, or via a grant of goods back to the deputy in that town. In this way deputies could even in fact work as agents for mayors of towns other than the one they reside in, (with both town mayors agreement of course) allowing for a new kind of trade mechanism between towns, using trusted and authorised county deputies and county grants, overseen and double checked by Trade Minister and Sheriff. This more dynamic multipoint kind of cooperation between towns could give Somerset a big advantage over its neighbours by increasing inter-town trading without placing a lot of extra burden on either mayors or Trade Minister. We could even send deputies to other counties on trade missions to the neighbouring county towns.

M'Lady Sheriff,
I also don't intend to clutter your thread with noise, and do not speak with the official voice of our town. I am on the town council, but this opinion is mine, not official.

Ok actually I just read Cat's remarks and he said what I was going TRY to say so much better than I could, I will simply say I agree with this:

Catullus wrote:

e) As you expected, I'm kinda questioning this. Perhaps it's because I've only known a succession of mayors who are active in the local economy, but throughout my time our mayors have monitored the market carefully and exported / purchased surplus as necessary. Having someone purchase products and transfer them to their town via the county market (if I understood one of your points corectly) is a rather expensive way for the mayor to conduct their business - or for the county as they'll usually subsidize the 50 pound fee. I would anticipate that most mayors have people granted within their own towns to watch the market for one or two products, and to ensure that availability exists, product is moved, shortages are noted and county requests are dealt with.
From what I understand, there is an existing support mechanism (goodswise) for Bristol, so it might be best just to leave that system in place. For the other towns, I recognize that there will be times that unforseen occurances lead to shortages. Bridgewater had an issue with buckets for a while, and dealt with this via trade with another town within Somerset. But if there's a town that is facing chronic shortages of items, sometimes a bit of tough love is better than assistance. Council the town, assist the town from time to time, but long term problems might be a management issue that needs to be solved as opposed to enabling it to continue. I always worry that programs such as this can lead to dependance if you're not careful.
The other concern is one that Justin brought up in the main forums. One of the sources for town weath is the trade margins earned through purchasing goods from their own market, and trading these to the county. In some ways, your proposal cuts the town out of these dealings, and will syphon profits to the county. If you're looking to support county programs via this mechanism, then perhaps deputies is the way to go. But the libertarian in me believes that initiatives are often better handled at the town level, where they're closer to their populace and its needs.

I understand your goal, and it does have some merit, BUT I think adding another layer of bureaucracy only makes things less efficient, and more complicated. A good Mayor can easily do what you suggest, and if not, then he or she can always appoint someone to handle it.

respectfully,
Atri

PS: I do think you are doing a fine job, M'Lady. And I applaude your "thinking outside the box"

I am in agreement with points both Catallus and Lady Chardonnay have made.

Wanting to involve more people is admirable but it also creates chaos and increases the chances of misuse of funds, creates more opportunity for the left hand to not be in accord with the right hand, etc. Communication in the virtual world cannot always be instantaneous between all these parties you wish to involve in what is a simple process and adding more red tape to go through to achieve the end result is not advantageous to the county.

I am opposed to this measure. These are tasks we already have appointed. It makes little sense to sublet them to even more people and tie up simple processes with greater complications.

Keep it simple.

The mentors mentor
The mayors manage towns
The TM manages the county
The Sheriff manages the livestock. has the mine upgrade duties the sheriff oversees and assists the TM with cash grants when needed

Clean cut, simple to observe and police to ascertain each faction is doing its job and if they are not simple to see who needs to be replaced to make the machine run more efficiently and productively.

I am also for basic simple efficiency for the reason that the more people one can amass under them the more people they have place blame on when something goes wrong and the responsibility they shoulder themselves.

ok i will speak from my mayor experiance.

Why i am against such idea.

Well when I was mayor of Gloucester i remember two time when was mayor i buy fodder for county and someone from the council beg a grant from the sherrif and buy at the same time all the corn and wheat causing two time a shortage in town ...

We gives more power to the TH. And one of them is to manage their market. The TM pass by the mayor to ask for fodder or other stuff. Why because we consider the mayor is the better person in place to know if they can export goods from their town with out shortage. Their are elected by their town people and is their job to maintenain a good market. Your idea go against that idea.

Now in the past, like when i was mayor a system call the county agent exist past then, that thing dispear when county in debt cannot longer make money grant and never really re apear when we get out of debt since we use so much the mayor for transferring goods that county agent has not usefull anymore.

County agent has someone nominated by the mayor of the town and is job has to sell county goods to TH and buying goods of town for the county. But all that with approbation of the mayor. He also serve when a town has in trouble, lack of fund to import some goods. To sell directly from county grant into the market.

Well now every TH execpt bristol have enough funds for any import, mayor can be granted by the county, and since then TH have council (execpt Gloucester even when i was mayor gloucester has one of the first town with TH council) and that have a lot of people ready to help the mayor and is task.

Now about checking market and laws, well their is already something existing related to that and is police office or constabulary force if look in the laws the trouble we try to recruit since over 9 month and very few want to do it. In france that thing is very popular but here most people don't care. The idea will be to use what is already in place before creating more structure.

Now the last thing why giving more power to sherrif. Sherrif have already the mine to manage (pasting number, upgrading mine when needed), breeeding animal. Trading is the only job of the TM, you want to even takes more duty of teh TM that is the only duty that position have no, i am totally against the increase of power of the sherrif over the only duty of teh TM.

Hypno wrote:

Now the last thing why giving more power to sherrif. Sherrif have already the mine to manage (pasting number, upgrading mine when needed), breeeding animal. Trading is the only job of the TM, you want to even takes more duty of teh TM that is the only duty that position have no, i am totally against the increase of power of the sherrif over the only duty of teh TM.

Yes, Vana, you do seem awfully eager to make the Sheriff's position more powerful. That it would come at the expense of the Trade Minister's position is, I suppose, unsurprising, given that you and I are members of opposing political parties. That you're so blatant about it is a bit surprising, given your claims to naivety and protestations of being innocent of partisan political desires. We have a balance of power among the council members, and powermongering for any one office is at best unseemly.

I resent the allegation that anything I am proposing is politically motivated or due to any desire for power. I didn't even ask for the Sheriff job. As far as I am concerned the whole job could belong/report solely to the Trade Minister if only the Trade Minister was in a position to grant money. The idea of calling them deputy sheriffs is because the title and badge might attract some to do the job, part of which according to Hypno is 'popular in France but not here'. I think 'assistant trade minister' or 'county agent' doesn't sound so attractive. I suppose my naive optimism led me to think that we could have an academic thread about a suggestion for the betterment of Somerset without someone trying to use it to criticise their "opponents'" motives for political reasons. And I also dislike the fact that your emphasis is on us being in different parties, as if opponents, rather than us serving on the same council as partners. The balance of power among the council members hinges on a good relationship between the Trade Minister and Sheriff, and I am doing all I can to help that.

Vana, I"ve been listening to some of the level threes discuss their classes on philosophy, so I'm going to practice the principle of charity as best I can. In other words (as charity can have unfortunate connotations), I'll be viewing this situation in the best possible light for all parties concerned.

You proposed something that you sincerely believed would benefit the county. You saw an opportunity to increase player involvement in the governance of the county (fairly sure this was part of your party's platforms) and would be able to help out the county. You had some slight concerns regarding your e'th (5th, e'th) point, but figured the benefits outweighed any possible concerns.

On the other hand, Chardonnay sees this as an attempt to infringe upon her role in the government. Given that she's been placed in her position by two different leaders with relatively different viewpoints on effective government, she must be doing a good job or else Allicath would have someone else to deal with the second most important role in county government. Actually, I might almost consider the TM the most important councilor, as much of the ducal focus is directed elsewhere, while the TM is up to her elbows in local economic issues. (please note, I'm not devaluing the role of the duke at all, I'm just looking at things from the point of view of where most of their actions take place. Nor am I downgrading the other council roles - TM takes the most time next to the duke from what i understand). As such, she does have a fairly authoratative voice (as I found out when I challenged the wheat issue during the election) and of all the councillors, probably least deserves to have her sphere of influence shrunk based on the excellent job she has done. And you're not questioning how great a job she has done and how much she has benefitted Somerset, but indirectly you were proposing that her role be reduced.

Although you were not intending this outcome (ie to reduce her role in any way, shape or form) I would think you'd concede that it's not too tough for her to analyze your e'th proposal as an attempt to reduce her responsibilities within the council. You got a correction as you'd stepped on her toes ... sometimes its best to just say oops and move on. Be glad that your optimism ended up being resolved this quickly. Personally, I allowed my naive belief and optimism to cloud my judgement. The small analysis that you missed resulted in a short term political oopsie. Mine resulted in me effectively selling out my town politically in return for lowered town morale, a sense of alienation and dissatisfaction to the point where we spend a significant part of our tavern time trying to find nre reasons to convince frustrated and critical active players to stay. Trust me, take your rapped knuckles, analyze things a wee bit more in the future and move on. Please stop resenting these things if you can ... just say a few words under your breath <oops, gosh dagnabbit ... that kinda thing> and move on to another initiative. Advising that you resent something can only lead to another debate on whether you should resent, why you resent, why your resentment is resented ...

Oh, and part of me wishes that what you did was politically motivated. If it were, it would have been one of the most subtle political moves that I've seen in Somerset. There was no name calling, there was no past history dug up, only a proposal with a veiled attempt to reduce another party member's authority. Just as I enjoy subtlety within political rhetoric, whether or not I agree with the move, I love subtle political maneuvering. But as you said, you weren't trying to be political ... so i'll wait until someone else proposes something this subtly underhanded for me to praise.

Reduce well trade is the only duty of teh TM, i don'T call that reduce i call that simply doing someone else job when the sherrif position have multi duty in the contrary of TM job ...

And is go against the spirit of the position of the council and against i cannot name the number of laws in legal corpus and also against the power of the mayor, the town council ...

That what i see, yes your new so i put that and not knowing all the consequence, i am sure is not intentional but that is exactly what it'S is.

oh and if you want people to be more active in governement i suggest you read that part of the legal corpus... maybe you can help getting it active:

Quote :

Article 1 – Constable procedure.

Art. 3.1.1.: The police force is in charge of investigating violations of the penal code, to collect proof and to identify the accused. If all the proof is already made public, they make their report to the judicial system (Public prosecutor and judge) which shall proceed with the case.

Art. 3.1.2. : The police force is responsible for verifying the quality and the truth of any proof they will present to the court.

Art. 3.1.3. :The police force:
i.The Constable;
ii. The Police officers called the Lieutenant.
iii. The Police sub-officers call the Corporal.

Art. 3.1.4. : The police force have duties to collect the testimony of the victims of crime and to transmit it, if the case is needed, to the police service or judicial service of the territory where the crime had been committed.

Art. 3.1.5. : The police officers have the duty to inform the public prosecutor of the crimes they know without delay. When the police investigation is finished, they must provide the report and every document related to the case to the public prosecutor. The report must have the name and rank of the police officer in charge of the investigation.

Art. 3.1.6. : The police officers can also listen to any person that can provide information about the case they investigate. They should make reports out of this information they collect.
The person, who might seem that there is no reason to press charges against, can only be restrained for the time of their interrogation.
The police officer can, for the necessity of investigation, put under preventive detention any person that they have reasonable doubt to have committed the crime, and inform the public prosecutor of the fact at the beginning of the detention.
The person under arrest cannot be detained more then necessary. But the detention can be longer if the public prosecutor authorizes it.
Under the instruction of the public prosecutor, after sufficient proof have been collected, the person in preventive detention can be put in trial or set free.*


Art. 3.1.7. : The police officers have the duty to inform the victims of their rights:
i. That they can make a complaint against a criminal and volunteer themselves as witness before the court.
ii. As a witness, they can be assisted by a lawyer; the judge can assign a lawyer if they don’t have any. The victim pays the fee for the lawyer if the lawyer requires a fee.
iii. That they can be helped by any group or guild to be a proper witness.
__________________
* The preventive detention is only role-play, the one that refuse to play it will be consider guilty.

I do not concede that my proposal in any way diminishes the job of the Trade Minister, it expands trade opportunities by providing the TM with additional trusted agents and more ways of trading. It also reduces the possibility that anyone could claim that council trade beneficiaries are members of a small network of cronies.

I should emphasise perhaps that I recognised from the outset that part (e) would cause some controversy, and I am not intending to stubbornly push for it if all the feedback I get is negative. I just wanted to hear logical and reasoned considerations of the idea.

I do not accept that councillors have no right to talk about jobs they don't hold, otherwise there would be no point in there being twelve councillors.

If I were to suggest anything to get Chardonnay replaced as Trade Minister as Catullus mentioned, I wouldn't be underhand about it, but would simply give my reasons to Allikath to get her replaced. I have not done so, and I won't comment personally here about how well I feel anyone is performing in their job. But I will say that I'm surprised that the TM doesn't jump at the chance of getting more help and insists on going it alone. I think that in itself, as well as the accusations thrown at me, shows which side is really thinking about grabbing or clinging onto power, rather than trying their hardest to work together harmoniously for everyone's benefit. I see part of my job as supporting the other councillors, and I hope that any perceived stepping on toes is forgiven as part of learning new dance steps with new partners.

As to helping get the constabulary to be more active, I think introducing new titles and insignia together with possibly some other rewards and activities, including recognition and requirements for reports, such as I have suggested for deputy sheriffs, may help.

It is quite simple. Some jobs are just easier to do oneself. A number of tasks I COULD delegate in my real life business I choose not to because delegation does not equal efficiency or effectiveness.

In game When you have all the information at your fingertips and you do not have to track down and consult with 3 or 5 other people you can accomplish the task at hand much more efficiently and move on the next several times over while waiting for persons 1 - 5 to check their mail and make a reply or be available in MSN or show up in a tavern.

Some people DO function better having an army of lackeys to do their footwork and other people function much more efficiently in solo mode.

Perhaps instead of dictating to the person who holds the position what they do or do not need to do their job well, asking them if they need or want assistance would be the better avenue to take to avoid the appearance of ulterior motive.

I might be wrong with this but if a town is short on one product and can't make it for a few days they can send someone to buy it off another towns market of it can be transfered quickly through a grant with set guidelines on price. So if a town had goods in overproduction but another was short on it it can be bought up quickly benefiting the craftspeople who made it because it wasn't being sold in their own town but is now has been bought and being sent to another town.
Its a good idea even if it may give the sheriff some more power but it could make fast trade links between towns and bring all the towns closer together in an economic perspective

That mechanism is already in place! Any mayor is free to ask the Trade Minister to help with an oversupply in their town - Bath had an oversupply of wool, an item that Somerset often imports - and I was happy to take it off the town's hands. It will wind up in clothing in all the other towns! The same would be true of most other things, although the county doesn't get involved with clothing (most of that is made by request, although a mayoral request to FIND an article of clothing would be responded to rapidly) or with carpenters products, which tend to be specific to towns (boats are only useful in Gloucester, ladders in Bridgewater).

Vàna Rúndóttir wrote:

If I were to suggest anything to get Chardonnay replaced as Trade Minister as Catullus mentioned,

Vana, if you're going to analyze my thoughts, please keep your version of my thoughts slightly closer to my words. Nowhere did I say that you proposed that chardonnay be replaced, only that her responsibilities be reduced. I choose my words carefully, and can't be bothered with including silly insinuations of cronyism (by implying that this is a possible but unheard concern that Chardonnay might face). I believe that I was fairly honest when I appraised both your thoughts, and offered my assessment of how this could be viewed. Be a good little sheriff and extend me the same courtesy.

Vana, with only four town markets to monitor, it's quite easy for me to stay on top of the towns needs, as expressed by their mayors. If Somerset were as large as, say, Brittany, which has 10 towns, yes, I would need assistance, and would long since have sought authority to hire assistants were that the case. But more people to interface with causes confusion, as in Cornwall, where three people in one town requested grants of the trade minister, leading to one town being seriously overstocked with some items, while other towns hadn't enough.

It's so nice of you to consider helping with my workload, but I truly believe that I have my job under control. And I reiterate that, with the singular exception of your point (e), I do support the idea of deputy sheriffs as you have outlined them. But too, I reiterate that there is no need for additional people mucking up the markets in Somerset. I shall continue to make myself aware of the market situations in each town by discussion with their mayors, and to supply each town with its needs, again, as the mayors inform me of them. In other words, I do not wish to reorganize the way that things are done, preferring simple and easy solutions to unnecessary complication and duplication of efforts.

Please, dont mess with Local Town economy, you will only confuse market and make Mayors angry upon your face ......this is what you saying cannot simply work as you imagine it in real world, cause here people have no phone ...

A SIMPLE EXAMPLE : Town mayor put a nice price for a surplus when it seems by his experience, citizens need that particular moment.

County ...debuties of your Grace , maybe thinks this is a good oprotunity for buying for the county making a mess in the local economy to be good in your eyes.....

And dont talk about communication, it is almost certain things will go wrong, and les to give some results.....

So, stick on the breeding program the best as you can

The way you seem to envisage it working is not the same as the way I do. Of course if deputies are not attuned to the mayors actions there could be misunderstandings. That's why the deputies need to be seen by the mayors and TM as their agents, not as freelance traders, nor as unrestricted and independent county traders. The deputies would only operate through specific grants, buying or selling only the items at the agreed prices in agreed quantities from agreed markets over agreed time intervals that the mayors and TM have asked them to look out for. I said at the outset that the most important input to the idea was from mayors.

There is another aspect to the idea too, in how deputies may expand trading possibilities. As some people know, not all cheap trades go through town markets as cheap trades to be seen by mayors. The 'high priced item' deals often mask the best prices in town as more complex two-way transactions between more experienced traders. Mayors are not aware of all of these kinds of deals. I know that as someone with relatively low charisma points, I have found these kinds of trades very useful to buy cheap supplies for my tavern. I have met a network of town suppliers willing to supply their produce very cheaply using this method to support what they agree is a good cause. Some of these people would certainly also supply the towns or counties with needed goods. Mayors will know some of them. But additional deputies working in conjunction with mayors will know and be able to contact even more of them. And the county wide aspect of the cooperation will mean that the kind of deals that go on in towns now through 'high priced transfers' can be transacted between towns too. Trades can become more of an arranged steady flow and less of an opportunistic and reactive result of one individual per town sampling markets, enabling us to avoid shortages and oversupply better than we can at present.
And I know that good mayors can do some of this without deputies, and have their own network of suppliers. If they do, then some of the people they trust to help them would be the best candidates for deputies and would help maintain the trade network during changeovers of mayors.

It adds complexity to a simple area. Most mayors already have people watching the markets. I see nothing to be gained by adding a level of bureaucracy to a system that works, albeit immperfectly. But perfection would be boring.

Too, the deputy sheriffs would mostly end the intertown trading that now goes on, because it would be more centralised.

You're flogging a dead horse, Vana. Give it up.

May I add that we already have an in game mechanism that could be used in this regard.

I suggest expanding the duties of the chief marshals who are already in place and are being PAID by the county.

I n addition to the duties of defending the town and watching the town lists they could be used also as the town constables we have had problems recruiting and perform the duties of the defunct police force we have laws for in Somerset towns.

Quote :

Art. 3.1.1.: The police force is in charge of investigating violations of the penal code, to collect proof and to identify the accused. If all the proof is already made public, they make their report to the judicial system (Public prosecutor and judge) which shall proceed with the case.

Art. 3.1.2. : The police force is responsible for verifying the quality and the truth of any proof they will present to the court.

Art. 3.1.3. :The police force:
i.The Constable;
ii. The Police officers called the Lieutenant.
iii. The Police sub-officers call the Corporal.

They could coordinate with SAS town patrols in keeping our towns and roads safe and watch for slavery and other violations of the laws within our town which would include economic laws involving the town markets.
Therefore they would keep an eye on the market and could perform the function of Vana's suggestions for deputies.
In addition to posting the town hall info they could also post the market as we have stopped doing. This would help the TM, Sheriff, and Mayors in market matters, needs and overages of goods.

As such they would work hand in hand with the mayor of the town and be under their direction to a point as well.

The Laws will need to be revised and revoted on to include such duties before such can be enacted.

I like Allikath's idea too.